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'The Situation with Tucker Carlson' for June 22

Read the transcript to the Wednesday show

Guests: Robert Scheer, Gordon Chang, Jake Goldenflame, Max Kellerman, Jared Parsons

TUCKER CARLSON, HOST:  Thank you, Rita. 

Thanks to you at home for tuning in.  Good to have you with us.

Tonight, growing outrage over Iraq and the sub-human behavior of Iraqi extremists: 2,500 Americans killed overall, two of them recently kidnapped, tortured and mutilated. 

Many Democrats now back plans to begin withdrawal immediately, but not the most prominent Democrat of all.  Hillary Clinton continues to play Hamlet on Iraq.  I‘ll talk to one liberal critic who calls her stance on the war, quote, “pure gibberish.” 

Also ahead, our so-called European allies call the U.S. a greater threat to world peace than Iran.  Why do they hate us?  Should we care?  And why in the world is Cindy Sheehan over there fanning the flames?

And a plan that would shock George Orwell, how Big Brother wants to get inside your head and read your most intimate thoughts.  That story‘s coming up in just a minute.

But first, Hillary Clinton on Iraq.  Where does the 2008 Democratic frontrunner on the most important issue of this generation?  Your guess is as good as mine.  Here‘s what Mrs. Clinton herself said earlier today. 


SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), NEW YORK:  I simply do not believe it is a strategy or a solution for the president to continue declaring an open-ended and unconditional commitment, nor do I believe it is a solution or a strategy to set a date certain for withdrawal without regard to the consequences.


CARLSON:  So we should pull out, except that we shouldn‘t.  What does she believe?  And until we know, can Democrats take her seriously as a presidential candidate? 

In a scathing op-ed, my next guest wrote, quote, “Hillary Clinton‘s dissembling on Iraq has become a fatal embarrassment, not only for her but for anyone who hopes she can provide progressive leadership for the nation.”  Robert Scheer is a longtime “L.A. Times” columnist, the author of “Playing President”.  He‘s also the editor in chief of  He joins us tonight from Honolulu, Hawaii. 

Mr. Scheer, thanks for coming on.


CARLSON:  Aren‘t you exactly the reason Democrats lose presidential elections?  True believers on the left, push the Democratic to the left, into consistent positions that fail with ordinary voters?

SCHEER:  That‘s what the zealots in the Republican Party used to say about Reagan Republicans.

CARLSON:  You‘re right.

SCHEER:  And they held to their principles, and they ended up winning.  I don‘t think the hacks in the Democratic Party that keep telling us we can‘t stand for anything and we have to avoid the big issues of the day have been proved very successful. 

For example, I use in my column Barbara Boxer won handily in California and took very clear positions on all of these social issues and all on the war.  I don‘t see why Hillary Clinton can‘t do as much.

But let me make...

CARLSON:  Well, wait—this point...

SCHEER:  We‘re talking—we‘re talking—yes, go ahead.

CARLSON:  You point to Reagan as a true believing Republican who was elected.  When was the last time an out of the closet liberal Democrat was elected president?  I can‘t remember.

SCHEER:  Well, you know, first of all, we‘re really not talking about liberal conservative.  We‘re talking about whether it‘s proper to lie the American people into a war, to lie about the connection between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda, to lie about weapons of mass destruction. 

So the first thing is, we‘re talking about truth seekers, whether they are moderate Republicans, just honest people.

CARLSON:  Right.

SCHEER:  And I want to support a candidate that, A, exposes the lies of this administration and, B, says that this occupation is a disaster.  It‘s cost us $320 billion.  It‘s cost 2,500 U.S. G.I. lives.  And tens of thousands maimed, thousands and thousands of Iraqis.

CARLSON:  Well, look, I agree with...

SCHEER:  It‘s a disaster.

CARLSON:  I agree with everything you‘re saying.  However, let me just take up for Hillary Clinton, something I don‘t often do, very quickly.

She says, “I don‘t think it‘s a smart strategy to set a date certain” for withdrawal.  “I do not agree that is in the best interests of America.” 

Doesn‘t she have a point, as appalling as the war and occupation have been, as bad for America as they have been, wouldn‘t it be worse to leave and let the country of Iraq crumble and come under the direct influence of Iran and Syria and to some extent Turkey?  I mean, that would be worse than the situation we have now, don‘t you think?

SCHEER:  Well, first of all, the Iranian influence over Iraq was enabled.  This president, he knew this was going to happen, or I assume the neoconservatives knew it was going to happen. 

And the Shiites, who represent 60 percent of the population, they won the election, and they are sympathetic to the ayatollahs across the border, as well as the Iran ayatollahs.  That‘s a disaster that you have to live with now.  That‘s called self determination.  And for better or worse, the Iraqis have got to be entrusted to make their own history.  We hope it‘s for the better. 

But I—what I‘m saying, the occupation is feeding the maniacs on both among the Sunnis and the Shiites.  The occupation is what is rallying this hostility.  It‘s the recruiting poster for terrorists who actually didn‘t even exist as a force under Saddam Hussein.

And we‘ve seen this before.  Whether it‘s French, German, any occupying power no matter how well intentioned, it has unintended consequences, and that‘s the reality of Iraq.

CARLSON:  But back to Hillary Clinton.  You make the point, and I haven‘t heard many people on the left make this point—and good for you for saying it—that her explanation for her vote in favor of the war is a dodge, and it‘s weak and it‘s pathetic.  You call it pitiful. 

Her explanation that she believed the president, she was misled by the Bush administration and she never should have believed them in the first place.  You call her out on that and make a point, you know, why should she have believed Bush in the first place, anyway?  Why haven‘t more Democrats said that?

SCHEER:  Look, I‘m not here to defend the Democrats.  I‘m here to defend the principle of representative government and an informed public, and I don‘t blame the average citizen for not having access to all of these documents and reading through all the information.

But members of the United States Senate had enough access to information to know this war was a fraud from the beginning.  What some of them, Hillary and Kerry at that time, lacked was the knowledge to stand up to the president and to take their lumps at a time when the public was intimidated and manipulated.  But that‘s what leadership is all about. 

And we‘ve had Democrats lead us into war.  We‘ve had Democrats lie about war.  This is not a Republican monopoly, and I for one wanted to support and vote for a candidate who would tell us the truth about the biggest issues we face.

CARLSON:  Well, good for you.  And in that way, I‘m—I‘m on your side.  I think you speak the truth on that score.  Robert Scheer from Honolulu, Hawaii, thanks for joining us.

SCHEER:  Thank you.

CARLSON:  Now we turn to what could be the greatest threat to American security, North Korea.  If you‘re not worried you ought to be.  Kim Jong-Il‘s regime appears to be on the verge of testing a ballistic long range missile that could reach Chicago. 

U.S. spy satellites have shown a missile ready for launch.

Here‘s what President Bush said today about the crisis.


GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES:  It should make people nervous when nontransparent regimes that have announced that they‘ve got nuclear warheads fire missiles.


CARLSON:  So is North Korea really crazy enough to start a war with the United States?  My next guest is the author of “Nuclear Showdown: North Korea Takes on the World”. 

Gordon Chang, welcome.


CARLSON:  So is North Korea really crazy enough to start a war with the United States, or at least to threaten a war?  I don‘t understand the strategy here.

CHANG:  I don‘t think that they would really start a war, but I think that they would threaten a war.

You‘ve got to remember, Kim Jong-Il, even though he‘s a leader of a one-man state, he‘s got regime politics.  There are 300 people that run North Korea, and the politics are intense, especially because Kim Jong-Il has been weakened over this last decade. 

If Kim Jong-Il does something boastful like fire off a missile or whatever, he‘s going to boost his standing among those 300 people, especially the military.  And so I can see him doing a lot of provocative acts, even though the international community is trying to stop him, largely because that‘s going to be very good at home for him.

CARLSON:  Well, that—I mean, that sounds like—that sounds like a rational strategy.  He has been portrayed, Kim Jong-Il, in the American press as demented, as you know, as a wastrel, someone who‘s, you know, spends his day drunk on cognac with hookers.  Is he crazy?

CHANG:  Well, I don‘t think he‘s crazy, but you‘ve got to remember that he and his father, the only two leaders this country have ever known, have created this cult of personality that had elevated the both of them to gods, which means they‘re not bound by morals and scruples that apply to ordinary mortals. 

And because of that, you know, they go out and they do what they want, and that‘s why North Korea is so aberrant.  They just go out and do what they want.  And so he does—you know, he has the Swedish nymphets, the Korean teenagers; he has the drugs, the girls whatever.  You know, that‘s because he‘s God.

CARLSON:  Well, I mean, do we even believe that this missile is real? 

I mean, North Korea obviously has motive to bluff.  They want to be in the

you know, in the top, most superior position they can be when they negotiate with the United States.  Why do we think this missile exists and is not made out of papier mache?

CHANG:  Well, in 1998, they tested a missile that nobody in the U.S.  government except for Donald Rumsfeld thought existed.  Rumsfeld in July 1998 said look out, there‘s a North Korea missile.  The next month North Korea set off a three-stage missile, and it landed in the waters off Alaska.  Some people say some of the debris landed actually in Alaska. 

And the American intelligence community was stunned, because they said North Korea couldn‘t have a ballistic missile until 2010.

So yes, they‘ve got a missile.  They‘ve had a lot of time to work on it.  And that‘s why they want to light this thing off, because they want to see if it really works and the improved version is even better than the one before.

CARLSON:  And are we certain that North Korea has nuclear weapons?

CHANG:  We‘re about as certain as we possibly can be, because we know they have the fissile (ph) material, the plutonium and possibly some uranium.  They‘ve got enough material for about six to 12 weapons.  The basics of designing it, they‘ve gotten either from Pakistan or China.


CHANG:  So you know, it‘s almost virtually...

CARLSON:  So they have nuclear weapons, and you believe they have the means to deliver those weapons to the continental United States?

CHANG:  Yes, the only thing that they can‘t do, probably, is they probably haven‘t shrunk (ph) their weapons and mated them to the missiles, and that‘s a very complex process.  But they can deliver their missile with merchant ships and all sorts of cargo containers.  So yes, they can deliver them here but not on top missiles. 

In five to seven years, they will have the capability to shrink those weapons, put them on missiles and deliver it anywhere in the United States.

CARLSON:  That is just—that is just terrifying. 

I have to ask you about a report today in the news about Kim Jong-Il‘s son, one of his children, who was cited at an Eric Clapton concert recently in Germany.  He was described as the heir apparent, according to some North Korea watchers.  What is the heir apparent to the throne of North Korea doing at an Eric Clapton concert in Germany?

CHANG:  Well, the other heir apparent before this one was going to Disneyland on a fake Dominican passport, with tons of cash and lots of girls.  So you know, if they can do that, the guy can go to Germany for a Clapton concert.

CARLSON:  You couldn‘t make up a country like this. 

CHANG:  No, you can‘t.

CARLSON:  I‘m going to read your book: “Nuclear Showdown: North Korea Takes on the World”.  Gordon Chang, thank you.

CHANG:  Thank you.

CARLSON:  Still to come, Cindy Sheehan takes her anti-American show to the anti-Americans.  She‘s in Europe now confirming the ugly stereotype about the United States.  Details in a moment.

Plus, a gun battle inside a prison leaves a guard and an investigator dead, a remarkable story of sex and drugs behind bars.  All of that when we come back.


CARLSON:  Still to come, a public library says it won‘t carry Spanish language books any more.  It‘s discrimination against illegal immigrants, scream the activists.  And the problem is?

Plus, New York City, the politest city in the world?  Fuggedaboutit. 

We‘ll tell you why courtesy is not a New York quality.  Right back.



GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES:  Yes, I thought it was absurd for people to think that we‘re more dangerous than Iran.  And look, people didn‘t agree with my decision on Iraq.  And I understand that.  For Europe, September the 11th was a moment; for us it was a change of thinking.


CARLSON:  That was President Bush speaking earlier today in Vienna and doing a pretty good job, better than he typically does under duress.  He hasn‘t gotten a particularly warm reception in Europe, where a recent poll found that 36 percent of those surveyed think America is the greatest threat to world peace, greater than Iran, greater than China.  Leading the anti-U.S. protest, Cindy Sheehan herself, a living excuse for anti-Americanism. 

So why do they hate us over there, and do we even care any more?

Here to tell us, MSNBC contributor Flavia Colgan, joining us this evening from Burbank, California.

Flavia, welcome.


CARLSON:  So the signs greeting Bush as he arrived in Europe, “world‘s No. 1 terrorist,” “mass murderer,” “against war and capitalism”, “Islam is not the enemy”.  I mean, slogans that reflect a mindset that‘s so deeply unreasonable, so reflexively anti-American, so beyond arguing with, that I‘m not even sure it‘s worth paying attention.  It‘s like who cares what you think if you‘re going to be that stupid and unreasonable and filled with hate?

COLGAN:  Well, I agree and I disagree with you.  In terms of the poll itself, I actually take the side of the president and the prime minister of Austria, who described those numbers as absurd and grotesque, that we would be seen as, you know, more dangerous force to the world than North Korea or Iran.  It‘s frankly not even worth debating.

However, I do think that viewers really need to understand that, when we talk about the tally of the cost of the war in Iraq, you know, the thousands of people that we‘ve lost, the billions of dollars that have been spent, I think that right up there in that tally is the goodwill that we have squandered around the world, because it really does matter and Americans should care. 

And they should care for a number of reasons.  One, I think that it does affect our security interests, because as you know, especially now more than ever, with as stretched out as we are, we need allies to support us, and the more that foreign countries or people don‘t, you know, don‘t feel...

CARLSON:  Right.  Look, I understand...

COLGAN:  ... what we‘re dealing with is so typical.

CARLSON:  Yes, I hold on.  Wait, I want to correct—I want to correct what I believe is a profound misunderstanding of the roots of their dislike for us. 

Look, Europe is mad about the war in Iraq.  I‘m mad about the war in Iraq.  That‘s fair.  They‘re mad about the Kyoto treaty and a lot of other things.  But we never acknowledge the truth, and the truth is this.  There‘s a huge, restive, potentially dangerous Muslim population in Europe, that European politicians pander to when they attack the United States. 

There is, I believe, a fifth column in Europe, people who don‘t identify with European values, who I think are intent on changing Europe into a much different society, and Europeans are afraid of him.  So hating America is a good way to calm those elements down.  I mean, that‘s just true.

COLGAN:  And by the way, you just illuminated yet another reason Europeans are upset with the United States, because they feel that Bush‘s failed policy, the way that many Americans feel, have not made the world safer, and so does the Pentagon‘s own numbers that show a 5,000 percent increase in terrorist attacks around the world, a 2,000 percent increase in deaths related to terrorists or, you know, fundamentalists. 

CARLSON:  You know, what, though?  You know what?

COLGAN:  Europeans see those numbers.  And I agree with you on climate change—on climate change.  On climate change, yes, that may not...

CARLSON:  Just wait, Flavia.  Where exactly—where exactly...

COLGAN:  ... destabilizing the world.  But our view and guzzling the gas that that we do...

CARLSON:  Oh, give me a break.  Give me a break.  Where did—where did...

COLGAN:   That does completely...

CARLSON:  Guzzling gas.  As if—as if Europe uses no fossil fuel.  I mean, that‘s not—I don‘t think it‘s a serious argument.  Let me ask you this, though.  Where did...

COLGAN:  Tucker, you can‘t—you can‘t even sell...

CARLSON:  Hold on.  Hold on.  Give me a break.

COLGAN:  You cannot sell our cars—we can‘t even sell our cars to China, because our fuel efficiency standards aren‘t good enough.  And you if you don‘t think...

CARLSON:  You‘ve got to be kidding.

COLGAN:  I think that global warming...

CARLSON:  If you‘re holding up China as an example of sensible environmental policy, I‘m afraid you‘re beyond reach. 

COLGAN:  I know it‘s not.  I mean—I‘m saying they‘re horrible...

CARLSON:  But let me just say this.  Mohammed Atta came from Egypt. 

But he‘s...

COLGAN:  We‘re not even on their level.

CARLSON:  OK.  Let me just say this.  If anybody has a gripe against another part of the world, it‘s the United States against Europe.  Mohammed Atta was trained, not in Egypt where he came from, but in Germany, where he lived, in Europe.  He was spawned by Europe.  And so have a lot of other terrorists been, by Europe. 

The United States has reason to look at Europe and say what the hell is going on with your Muslim population?  You are a threat to us in the way that you are creating or allowing these Muslim extremists to be created right in your midst, and why aren‘t you doing something about it?

COLGAN:  And Europe, I think, has a—has reason to be upset with the United States that our policies in Iraq, and the fact that we‘ve taken our eye off the ball, whether it‘s North Korea or Iran, or the amount of money we spent on the global war on terror is making the whole world safer. 

And the reason that Americans should care, and we find a security issue and we‘ve talked about this before, Tucker, is there‘s a real bottom line.  Whether we think this poll is absurd, which I do, by the way, there‘s a real bottom line. 

Why do you think tons of companies went to Karen Hughes and the State Department and begged Bush to start going over there and doing something, because American companies can‘t sell their products abroad. 

CARLSON:  OK.  OK.  I mean...

COLGAN:  We‘ve lost almost 400,000 American jobs, billions of dollars, because of our tourism business.  And all I‘m saying is it does matter what other countries think of us.

CARLSON:  OK.  It does matter.  I guess I would—you know, I would hope what we think of them matters, too.  That‘s the other side of it.  In the end I‘m kind of on America‘s side against those pinheads.  You know, call me a jingoist, but that‘s—that‘s just how I feel, and their criticism must be taken, I think with a great deal of salt, and it is by me. 

Anyway, it makes me grumpy just thinking about Liechtenstein, Flavia, but thank you for coming on.             

COLGAN:  Thank you, Tucker. 

CARLSON:  Coming up the mayor of a small town in Arkansas is stabbed to death, and his granddaughter is charged with the murder. 

Plus, should everyone who works with children be tested to make sure they‘re not turned on by young boys and girls?  You‘ll meet a former sex offender who says yes, they should be, next. 


CARLSON:  In tonight‘s “SITUATION Crime Blotter”, a hail of gunfire breaks out at the Tallahassee federal prison, leaving one guard and a Justice Department investigator dead.  FBI agents were at the prison to arrest the guard and five others for having sex with female inmates in exchange for money and contraband.  Authorities said the illegal activity has been going on for two years. 

Today authorities arrested the granddaughter of McNeil, Arkansas‘ mayor and charged her with murdering him.  Nena Bolton was accused of stabbing her 83-year-old grandfather to death with the help of her boyfriend.  Bolton was recently released from prison after serving six years for killing her estranged husband.

And finally, Gerald Krein Jr. could be spending the next 20 years of his life in a psychiatric hospital.  The 27-year-old tried to organize a Valentine‘s Day suicide party last year through a Yahoo! chat room.  He asked women to hang themselves naked on Valentine‘s Day, and surprisingly, or not, six women expressed interest. 

Tonight‘s “Under the Radar” segment comes to us from San Francisco, California.  That‘s where a reformed child sex offender wants anyone interested in working with children first to take what is known as an arousal test.  The test currently involves hooking a machine like this one to one‘s private parts and measuring the physical stimulation that results from looking at various images, including images of children. 

Jake Goldenflame is the author of “Overcoming Sexual Terrorism”.  He joins us tonight from San Francisco, California. 

Jake Goldenflame, welcome.


CARLSON:  So the idea is to test anybody who want—who wants to work with children to determine if they are having thoughts about the children.  Is that the idea?

GOLDENFLAME:  More or less.  They‘re not quite ready to do this yet.  I want to be very careful.  In talking with the people in the field who are involved in this process, I‘m getting estimates that in about five years or so they should have this to that level where they can make safe predictions.  Right now the predications are about two-thirds right and one third wrong, and that‘s not good enough.  They‘re working on it.

Secondly, they‘re working on a much more non-invasive procedure where they won‘t hook anything up to anybody.  They‘ll give them what amounts to a scrapbook of pictures to look at, non-pornographic, and by noting the amount of time that they spend looking at certain pictures rather than others, they‘ve found ways to pick out whether or not a person has deviant impulses in them.

CARLSON:  Well, I mean, look, I am as down on child molesters as anybody in the country is, and we‘re all down on them, you know?  I think they ought to be castrated or thrown in prison or whatever, but we punish people for what they do, not for what they think and feel.  I mean, isn‘t there something creepy about this?

GOLDENFLAME:  We aren‘t talking about punishing anybody.  The proposition that we‘re looking at is would it be appropriate, would it be reasonable to say that if you have a technology that can accurately predict who would be in danger of offending and who would not, would it be unreasonable to ask that people going into certain kinds of work, such as taking care of very, very young children, grammar school, preschool, would it be unreasonable to ask them to take a non-invasive test of this kind, and as a result decide whether to hire them or not?

CARLSON:  Is it—I mean, is it possible that people who have these thoughts, who have these impulses, these sick impulses, don‘t act on them, can contain them?  I mean, does every person who feels sexual arousal when looking at pictures of kids, molest kids?

GOLDENFLAME:  Right.  It‘s also true that if you have the impulse in you it does not necessarily mean you will act on it.  The problem is this: quite frequently, you‘ll get somebody who was molested as a child themselves, not everybody, but some people who were molested as children find that this damage that was done to them incubates within them, usually for about a 10-year period or so and then can break out and lead to their doing something that hurts a child themselves.

CARLSON:  See, I don‘t get—you know, I don‘t get that at all.  I‘m sorry, Jake.  I mean, if something happened to you—to one as a child, and you didn‘t like it, why would you inflict it on somebody else?  I‘ve never understood that.

GOLDENFLAME:  I can‘t answer that, but I‘ll give you a typical example.  I‘ve had my book out for several years.  I got a letter from a 14-year-old boy who‘s in juvenile lockup in another state.  He relates that when she was 3 years of age he was raped, which he obviously did not enjoy and that 10 years later, without any warning whatsoever, he found himself losing control and raping a 3-year-old boy.  Now he‘s in lock-up.

CARLSON:  Well, that‘s just—let‘s just quickly—why not just, you know, if you‘ve shown that you‘re a repeat sex offender against children, why not just, you know, castrate people who do that so we don‘t have to worry about it?

GOLDENFLAME:  It doesn‘t work.  They tried castration in Europe after World War II.  They found that it doesn‘t get to some of the underlying problems, and people express their aggression in other ways.  Earlier in history when we—back in the days when they had harems, they used to castrate men to guard the women in the harems.  They found that castrates can still have sex.

CARLSON:  I don‘t think that they‘re doing it right, the castration. 

But that‘s just me.

Jake Goldenflame.  We can get into detail on a later show.  Thanks for joining us. 


CARLSON:  Still to come, a library in Georgia puts the breaks on buying Spanish language books.  Predictably, the critics are calling it racist.  But is it?  No, of course not.

Plus, what do Paris Hilton and Prince Harry have in common?  Yes, we do have the answer.  Stick around for tonight‘s “Top Five”.



CARLSON:  We turn now to a man who makes his living defending the indefensible every night.  And yet somehow he looks himself in the mirror every morning.  And you know what, he likes what he sees.  He is “The Outsider,” our ESPN Radio and HBO boxing host, Max Kellerman.

You look great, Max. 


CARLSON:  Well a Georgia public library system says it will no longer carry Spanish language fiction, that has some Hispanic groups furious.  Officials in Gwinnett County, just outside Atlanta, said some citizens objected to using taxpayer money to cater to readers who might be illegal immigrants. 

One out of six residents of the county are Hispanic.  The library board said that it is cutting a $3,000 grant it used last year to buy Spanish language fiction for budget reasons.  Hispanic groups are predictably protesting the move.  They still have children‘s books and non-fiction.  Max, if they want to read books, they will have to learn English. 

I am sorry, it is a country that speaks English.  I mean, I am not against books in Spanish, it‘s a public library, and if they are running into a budget shortfall, cutting books in a foreign language, and it is still a foreign language, by the way, is the first move I think.

KELLERMAN:  Well, in the first place, some citizens objected to using taxpayer money to cater to readers who might be illegal immigrants.  That‘s the quote, right?  How about readers who might be smugglers?  Should there be no books about interstate travel?  Should they stop buying books that have—I mean, it‘s so ridiculous. 

It‘s just clearly a popular—this is a popular political issue right now, this is affecting literature at your local public library?  Are you comfortable with that? 

CARLSON:  Yes.  This political grandstanding.  It happens every day in America.  We are never going to stop it.  It‘s the nature of politics, the nature of democracy, and certainly the nature of populism.

KELLERMAN:  But should we be—do you really want to stand up.


CARLSON:  . fanning the flames of it?

KELLERMAN:  . and champion that cause?

CARLSON:  It all depends on what the issue is, and on this issue, via (INAUDIBLE), this is one issue on which there is a huge divide between people who live in this country and people who run this country.  The people who run this country benefit, profit from illegal immigration.  The people who live in this country hate it.  So this is another reminder to those in power, knock it off, secure our borders, the people demand it.

KELLERMAN:  You know, there are legal residents of this country, citizens, who prefer to read in Spanish, for whatever reason.  Maybe their first language is Spanish.  Maybe to read the work of fiction or the text in its original language, and to derive the greatest benefit from it, they learn Spanish, and now they want to read it in its original language. 

I mean, should there be no copies of Dante‘s “Inferno” in Italian?  Because—you know, I mean, because Italian illegal immigrants might be reading it?  It is ridiculous.

CARLSON:  If the library is running out of money, cutting Spanish language fiction, OK, Harlequin romances in Spanish. 

KELLERMAN:  That is the point.  They are not saving any money.  What are they saving?

CARLSON:  They are saving three grand.  Do you know how much Mexican pulp novels cost?  A ton.  I could tell you about it.  I‘ve got a lot of them.

KELLERMAN:  That is 4 million books.  What, are you kidding? 

CARLSON:  Is it really possible that New York is the most polite city in the world?  Of course not.  But a new Reader‘s Digest study claims it is.  The magazine sent undercover reports to 36 cities in 35 countries to measure courtesy.  And they found New York to be the most polite city there is. 

The somewhat unscientific survey found 90 percent of New Yorkers held the door, 19 out of 20 store clerks said thank you.  Zurich, Toronto, and Berlin were the next three cities on the list. 

This is a noble P.R. move by Reader‘s Digest, Max, a magazine I used to work at and like.  And New York is more polite than it gets credit for, but this is absurd, I mean, this is absurd.  But I want to give you a chance stick up for your beloved city anyway.

KELLERMAN:  I want to make sure that you are finished with what you had to say, Tucker.  Far be it for me to insult you in any way or to interrupt you. 

CARLSON:  No, you have been very polite.

KELLERMAN:  No, thank you, yes, please.  The bigger and more—it seems counterintuitive.  The bigger and more bustling the metropolis, in fact, the more cooperation it takes with people.  The cars, the crowds, everything.  It takes more, not less, cooperation.  I have always noticed that about New York City.

CARLSON:  No.  That‘s right.  And I think that‘s exactly what the experiment with lab rats shows, right?  The more crowded into a cage, the kinder they are to one another?  No.  They eat each other, Max.  Being crammed in next to strangers who smell makes you, what, passive and kind?  No, it makes you hostile and aggressive and nasty. 

It makes you into a New York City cab driver, as you know. 

KELLERMAN:  OK.  Well, how about this, in that case.  And this is real.  September 11th changed—New York in the direct aftermath of the September 11th, New Yorkers felt much—really felt a bond.  We had experienced something.

And though it‘s already half a decade ago, the after shocks are still being felt, and I think that I have noticed a difference in terms of the level of politeness in the city, post-September 11th, and I don‘t think it has completely dissipated.

CARLSON:  I agree with that.  When I drive in the Lincoln Tunnel, Midtown Manhattan out to New Jersey, the hookers, in the early part of this decade, would say, yo, man, you want to date?  Now they say, excuse me, sir, would you like a date?  All right.  There is a kind of, you know.

KELLERMAN:  Tucker, I wouldn‘t know, I don‘t talk to prostitutes, but perhaps that is something.

CARLSON:  You don‘t use the Lincoln Tunnel?  Look.

KELLERMAN:  It‘s really unfair to bring up September 11th, that‘s a card I  really—I shouldn‘t.

CARLSON:  No, no.  Let me just say this.  The bright side in this study, and the one part of it is that is undoubtedly true, is that New York is a more polite city than any foreign city, than Zurich, Tokyo, God knows than Toronto.  Canadians... 

KELLERMAN:  Let me tell you.

CARLSON:  . get a lot of credit for politeness, but I don‘t think they are extraordinarily polite.

KELLERMAN:  Let me tell you something, this study, people think it‘s a great compliment to New Yorkers.  Every self respecting New Yorker I‘ve spoken to, and people have been talking about it, it has generated a little water cooler buzz, is offended by this study. 

We are the most polite?  They got a lotta nerve calling us the most polite city.  Are you kidding me?

CARLSON:  New Yorkers love to think of themselves as awful, and they are almost as awful as their self-conception, but maybe not quite.

KELLERMAN:  Also the safest big city in America.

CARLSON:  That‘s true.  And I think one of the prettiest.  Max Kellerman, thank you, Max.

KELLERMAN:  Thanks, Tucker.

CARLSON:  Well, the son North Korean leader Kim Jong-Il is rocking the communist world with news about his passion for Western music.  It seems 25-year-old Kim Jong-Chol is a diehard Eric Clapton groupie.  His secret was exposed when North Korea‘s heir apparent was spotted attending all four Clapton concerts in Germany this month. 

Apparently child rebellion can spring up even if dad is a dictator. 

In tonight‘s “Top 5,” other examples of extreme genetic disorders. 


CARLSON (voice-over):  They are the children of wealth and privilege, descendents of a supposedly higher social order.  So when these offspring tarnish the family name, they make headlines. 

As heir to one of the most famous hotel chains in the world, this girl has never known “The Simple Life.” But Conrad Hilton would be spinning in his grave if he knew what granddaughter Paris has done to the family image. 

Living in the shadow of a silver screen legend can‘t be easy.  But Christian Brando may have carried the rebellious child role a bit too far when he shot to death his kid sister‘s boyfriend.  Christian served six year behind bars and has since been accused of rape, assault, and the murder of actor Robert Blake‘s wife. 

This child has stirred up his share of noble controversy.  Prince Harry, son of Prince Charles and the late Princess Diana, has admitted to smoking marijuana, and he dug up another royal mess by wearing a Nazi uniform to a costume party just weeks before the 60th anniversary of the end of the Second World War. 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  A young man does it all the time.  He can be so incredibly stupid.

CARLSON:  They are members of America‘s most prominent political family, but some Kennedy kids have given a whole new meaning to the term dysfunctional.  Sample this rap sheet.  Michael Skakel, imprisoned for murder.  William Kennedy Smith, accused twice of sexual assault.  Michael Kennedy, investigated for statutory rape.  And let‘s not forget Congressman Patrick Kennedy who sometimes seems to forget that drugs and driving do not mix. 

REP. PATRICK KENNEDY (D), RHODE ISLAND:  I never asked for any preferential treatment.

CARLSON:  Talk about a rebel with a cause, Patty Hearst hailed from one of the country‘s richest families, but in 1974, this privileged airhead made headlines when she became a self-styled freedom fighter for an urban guerrilla group.

PATTY HEARST, HEIRESS:  I said a lot of crazy things.  I mean, I was a perfect wind-up doll.

CARLSON:  Patty served three well-deserved years for armed bank robbery, and was eventually granted a presidential pardon.  But this poor little rich girl will always be haunted by her past, thank God. 

HEARST:  With Patricia Hearst, it will be, you know, “kidnapped newspaper heiress” will always come before that name.


CARLSON:  Coming up on THE SITUATION, there is nothing cuter than a baby who looks like a pimp, is there?  We‘ll show you a remarkable new line of baby velour track suits and wife-beater onesies.  No kidding.  When we come back. 

And don‘t forget, we‘ll be checking THE SITUATION voicemail tomorrow night.  You can call 1-877-TCARLSON and let us know what is on your mind. 

You just might hear your call on the air and indeed you probably will.  We‘

We‘ll be right back.  


CARLSON:  Welcome back.  It is never too early to teach your child how to dress like a pimp.  That‘s the idea behind a new line of baby clothes called Pimpfants.  The line features items like baby beater tank tops, Junior Pimp Squad workout clothes, and even velour track suits, Sharpton-esque gold medallions optional. 

According to the company that makes Pimpfants, the clothes allow babies to, “hit the playground with fresh gear and street cred and represent in style and comfort.” Jared Parsons is the creator and the owner of the Pimpfants clothing line.  He joins me tonight from Portland, Oregon.

Jared Parsons, thanks for coming on.


CARLSON:  So who would buy this?  Who would want to dress their kids up like Al Sharpton or a rap star?  Who are the consumers here?

PARSONS:  It‘s people that are into urban-influenced fashion, people want something a little edgier than what is out there.

CARLSON:  Well, this is definitely edgier than what is out there, but it kind of requires that you identify your child with a pimp.

PARSONS:  Well, the way that we are using the word pimp and Pimpfants has nothing to do with a street pimp.  It is pimp in reference to style, a pretty commonly used slang word these days.

CARLSON:  So what does it mean for our viewers who aren‘t, you know, as hip? 

PARSONS:  Pimp basically means to make fancy, to—basically another word for stylish.  If my friend had a nice pair of shoes, I might say, hey, those shoes are pimping.  It has no relation to, you know, the other definition word that is also commonly known.

CARLSON:  How did you come up with this idea?

PARSONS:  Well, I grew up a skater and I was into kind of a—little bit more into like urban fashion styles, and when I had my first son—and I have three children, when I had my first son, when I would go out trying to find clothes for him when he was a baby, I realized that there was a complete void of the style that I was into for children‘s clothes, and that‘s pretty much where I came up with the idea for Pimpfants.

CARLSON:  What about some of the slogans on the clothes?

PARSONS:  You know, a lot of the slogans are humorous.  I mean, it is really for people that don‘t take things so literally, people with a sense of humor.

CARLSON:  Give me an example? 

PARSONS:  Let‘s see.  Like our Junior Pimp Squad, that‘s one of our basketball jersey slogans, and if you think of the world as pimp meaning style, to me and to most of my customers, it‘s junior style squad.  But the people that have a hard time looking at the word with the new definition, you know.

CARLSON:  Would you have a junior hooker squad too for the girls? 

PARSONS:  No, no.  Well, see, that‘s the big misconception is there is really no relation to our pimp squad to an actual street pimp or hooker.

CARLSON:  So a little girl could be a pimp too? 

PARSONS:  Exactly.  It‘s pimping as in style, kind of like the show “Pimp My Ride” or something. 

CARLSON:  So give me the demographic here.  I mean, who exactly—give me the profile of the person who is buying Pimpfants? 

PARSONS:  It is probably early 20s to early 30s.  Really the newer generations of parents, people that have kind of grown up with the word pimping being used commonly to reference style.  I think a lot of the older generations are not going to understand it, they grew up with that word meaning only one thing.  But to a little bit younger people, it has two definitions with no relation to each other.

CARLSON:  You brought some Pimpfants with you, can you show us? 

PARSONS:  I did.  I did.  Here are a couple of velour track suits.  They have the—this is jacket style with the embroidery on the back.  I have also got a couple of those.  This is one of our real popular ones.  The Baby Bling.  This is the hoodie style velour track suit, very high quality velour. 

CARLSON:  Wait, you—the green velour coat that you just held up said “diva” on the front.  If you dress a really little kid—a little girl in a coat that says “diva” on it, what kind of person do you think she is going to grow up to be? 

PARSONS:  Well, I know my little girl can be a diva sometimes.

CARLSON:  Well, as all can. 

PARSONS:  She wants what she wants.

CARLSON:  But do you want to encourage that? 

PARSONS:  You know what, it‘s meant to be looked at with a sense of humor.  I mean, these are little kids.  You know, our line goes up to 5 and under.  It‘s really meant to be cute, humorous, and stylish and comfortable at the same time. 

CARLSON:  What is your best seller?            

PARSONS:  Probably our velour track suits are probably one of our best sellers.  A lot of people like our beater tanks.

CARLSON:  What is a beater tank? 

PARSONS:  A beater tank is a tank top that is commonly nicknamed the wife beater, just because it‘s a two-by-one ribbed cotton fabric.  So everybody knows what we are talking about when we call it a beater tank. 

CARLSON:  Yes.  It‘s like the trailer park shirt, that‘s the idea?

PARSONS:  (INAUDIBLE) -- I guess that‘s one way you might be able to look at it.

CARLSON:  I don‘t know, I am not in retail.  Interesting.  What is the markup on these things? 

PARSONS:  Well, you can get—it goes anywhere from about $15.95 to about $44.95, $44.95 for the velour, the beaters start at about $15.95.  We have got onesies at about $19.95, the basketball sets.

CARLSON:  Amazing.  And finally, can most of the kids who wear these rap?

PARSONS:  You know, I‘m not sure. 

CARLSON:  But it‘s a head start I bet in a career in hip-hop.

PARSONS:  It‘s a start in the right direction.

CARLSON:  Jared, thanks for joining us.

PARSONS:  Hey, thanks a lot. 

CARLSON:  Still ahead on THE SITUATION, last night Anderson Cooper chewed the fat with Angelina Jolie.  So tonight he rolled up his sleeves and got elbow deep back into hard news, right?  I don‘t know, is Cher considered hard news?  We‘ll discuss it after the break.  


CARLSON:  That‘s right.  You know what time is it.  It‘s time for the “Cutting Room Floor” with the great Willie Geist—Willie. 

WILLIE GEIST, PRODUCER:  The great Willie Geist.  Thank you, Tucker. 

We like to keep everybody up-to-date on what is going a around on the dial, as we say.

CARLSON:  OK.  What is going on around the dial, Willie? 

GEIST:  Well, last night we showed you an interview with Anderson Cooper and—what‘s her name, Angelina Jolie, just catching up, talking a little shop.  And so we figured tonight, back to business, right? 

CARLSON:  Yes, of course.

GEIST:  So tonight he took it a step further.

CARLSON:  So what was it, NATO expansion?  The North Korea threat?

GEIST:  It was like that.  It was Cher. 

CARLSON:  Oh, Cher, OK.

GEIST:  She was actually talking about—you know, it‘s a good cause, helmets for our soldiers (INAUDIBLE). 

CARLSON:  Like the one she is wearing there in that picture.

GEIST:  She has always.

CARLSON:  That will protect you from IEDs.

GEIST:  She has had a real thing for soldiers.  Did you every see the “Turn Back Time” video where she is wearing like.

CARLSON:  No, I never did.  I totally missed that.

GEIST:  . ass-less chaps on an aircraft carrier with some sailors?

CARLSON:  But, really, there is really no one I want to get my public policy more than from Cher.  If you have got one name and you are in the entertainment business, I want you telling me how the government ought to run. 

GEIST:  You can catch the replay tonight.  Now we should say we have had cat circuses on our show.

CARLSON:  We have. 

GEIST:  We have had.


CARLSON:  I worked at CNN.  I know Anderson Cooper sort of vaguely.  I like him, he is a genuinely nice guy.  But I just—you know, come on, you can‘t be, you know, you are either.

GEIST:  You can‘t have it both ways.

CARLSON:  . trodding the killing fields of Sierra Leone or you‘re interviewing Cher, hard to do both simultaneously. 

GEIST:  I like Cher. 

CARLSON:  Yes.  Not me.  Well, there is really only one way to respond to the question, who wants free money?  This surveillance video from Wales show a group of rabid people answering that question.  A mystery man threw about $10,000 from car Monday and shouted, who wants free money! 

Pedestrians and other drivers got out of their cars and grabbed the cashed in a free-for-all.  Police arrested the man on a driving offense and urged people to return the money.

GEIST:  They arrested the man for throwing money out of his car?  That tells me one thing, this guy is not the modern day Robin Hood he has been touted as.  He is like a drug dealer who is unloading hot cash.

CARLSON:  Exactly right. 

GEIST:  He is not as generous as we think he is. 

CARLSON:  But there is something—I mean, I don‘t know, there is something kind of obnoxious about this.  I mean, there is.

GEIST:  Yes.

CARLSON:  You know what I mean?  Because all of a sudden, this does reduce people to their, you know, kind of animal nature. 

GEIST:  Right.  He‘s taunting them. 


GEIST:  It‘s like the—you ever go to a boardwalk, you probably have not, but I don‘t know why I did this.  You put a dollar bill on a piece of fishing line and put it up, and as people reach for it, you pull it back down.


CARLSON:  I always do that, if there is like a homeless veteran begging, you take the 20, then you pull it away.  Yes, I think I saw you doing this.

GEIST:  No, I never did that.  I heard about people who did this.

CARLSON:  Earlier in the store, we told you New York City has been named the world‘s most polite city, well, Phoenix has something to be proud of too.  It has been named America‘s sweatiest city.  A new study says Phoenix‘s adult residents sweat so much—how much do they sweat?  They sweat so much their perspiration can fill an Olympic-sized swimming pool in less than three hours.  That‘s a nice image.

Las Vegas came in at number two on that survey.

GEIST:  Tucker, I think I have a clue why they won this year, I went over to, the forecast tomorrow, and I am not kidding, 109.  It is going to be 109 degrees in Phoenix tomorrow.  So if they lost the title, they would have to be ashamed of themselves.  How could you not be the sweatiest city in America?

CARLSON:  Yes.  There is just something about that though that is just

I don‘t know, it is just not appealing.  I mean, what do you—when you think of Phoenix, you think of what, you think of their kind of crazed sheriff, Joe Arpaio, who dresses the prisoners in pink underwear and feeds them rotten baloney.

GEIST:  I always think that.

CARLSON:  Right, you do think that.  And you think of sweat.  If I were the head of the chamber of commerce of Phoenix, Arizona, I would be protesting that survey right now. 

GEIST:  It‘s a dry heat, though, it‘s nice. 

CARLSON:  If you like a little cattle-roping with your religion, you ought to try one of the growing number of cowboy churches sprouting up like mushrooms across this country.  The churches feature banjo picking, barn services, and baptisms in horse troughs.  The point of cowboy churches is to preach the Bible in plain English.  Instead of “thou shalt not covet thy neighbor‘s wife,” you will hear, “don‘t be hankerin‘ for your buddy‘s stuff..” 

Sounds fun.

GEIST:  You know what, honestly, if it gets people into church, why not, right?

CARLSON:  I totally agree.  Don‘t be hankerin‘ for your buddy‘s stuff.

GEIST:  No, I totally agree with that.

CARLSON:  Thou shalt not hanker with.

GEIST:  I never hanker for your stuff, let me tell you.

CARLSON:  I‘ll keep that in mind.

GEIST:  I don‘t want your stuff.

CARLSON:  I like my stuff.  Willie Geist. 

GEIST:  All right, Tucker. 

CARLSON:  That‘s THE SITUATION for tonight.  Thanks for watching, see you tomorrow.



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