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The Ed Show for Monday, September 26, 2011

Read the transcript to the Monday show

Guest: Rick Santorum, Mike Papantonio, Joe Madison, Steve Kornacki, Jim Moore, Heather Dubois Bournene, Eric Boehlert

ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, Americans, and welcome to "The Ed
Show" tonight from New York. The president`s job creation offensive
continues. I`m thrilled to see him fighting for the middle class. He uses
that term a lot now. But he needs to take it to the next level. I`ll tell
him how. This is "The Ed Show." Let`s get to work.


Stop grumbling. Stop crying. We are going to press on.

SCHULTZ: The president`s jobs offensive is gaining steam and the American
people are responding.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you please raise my taxes?

SCHULTZ: Radio host Mike Papantonio and JOHN MADISON on the growing
support for Obama`s plan. What`s the Republican plan to bring
manufacturing back to America? Rick Santorum has his ideas and I have
mine. I`ll interview the candidate tonight.

And Bill O`Reilly`s crusade to keep his taxes from going up. It`s a major
snag. Three years ago, he was agreeing to "paying" his fair share.

OBAMA: What say we go up to 20?


OBAMA: You and I agree.


SCHULTZ: Great to have you with us tonight FOLKS. Thanks for watching
"The Ed Show" here on MSNBC.

President Obama, I think he`s on the move and he`s definitely turned the
corner. There is fresh evidence on that again today and a trend is clearly
emerging. President Obama wants to be a fighter for the middle class.
He`s saying it a lot now. I love it. The working class. I`ve said the
president should name names, and he did that on the Ohio River just last


OBAMA: Part of the reason I came here is because Mister Boehner and Mister
McConnell, those are the two most powerful Republicans in government. They
can either kill this jobs bill or they can help pass this jobs bill. And I
know these men care about their states. They care about businesses. They
care about workers here. I can`t, I can`t imagine that the speaker wants
to represent a state where nearly one in four bridges are classified as


SCHULTZ: And this was only a few days after the president called out the
speaker for political gamesmanship.


OBAMA: So the speaker says, we can`t have it, my way or the highway, and
then basically says my way or the highway. That`s not smart. It`s not
right. If we`re going to meet our responsibilities, we have to do it


SCHULTZ: And just last night, the president hit back again directly at the
Republican accusation that he is engaging in class warfare. This is what
he said at a dinner hosted by the congressional black caucus.


OBAMA: If asking a billionaire to pay the same tax rate as a janitor makes
me a warrior for the working class, I wear that with a badge of honour.


SCHULTZ: And the president was fired up and he was clearly calling on his
base to stand with him.


OBAMA: I expect all of you to march with me and press on. Take off your
bedroom slippers. Put on your marching shoes. Shake it off. Stop
complaining. Stop grumbling. Stop crying. We are going to press on.
We`ve got work to do. CBC.


SCHULTZ: And this turn continues. Then today the president took another
golden opportunity to state his case. At a California town hall, a man in
the audience stood up and asked this.


DOUG EDWARDS, FORMER GOOGLE EXECUTIVE: My question is would you please
raise my taxes?


SCHULTZ: That man went on to say that he would like to see the country
invest in things like bell grants and infrastructure and job training
programs. His name is Doug Edwards, a former Google executive. If this
country can make a hero out of a phony like Joe the plumber, shouldn`t the
media be talking about this guy? We should certainly be praising a man who
has done well and wants to live in a country where the less fortunate have
a real opportunity to succeed the way it used to be. Here is part of the
president`s answer to that question.


OBAMA: So often the tax debate gets framed as, class warfare. America`s
success is premised on individuals, entrepreneurs having a great idea,
going out there and pursuing their dreams and making a whole lot of money
in the process. And that`s great. But as you just pointed out, we`re
successful because somebody invested in our education. Somebody built
schools. Somebody created incredible universities. I went to school on
scholarship. We benefited from somebody somewhere making an investment in


SCHULTZ: Well, the president is clearly ready to defend what the
Democratic Party is supposed to stand for. And he is sounding like a
fighter again. At a fund-raiser in Woodside, California, this weekend the
president said this.

"Has anybody been watching the debates lately? You`ve got a governor whose
state is on fire denying climate change. You`ve got audiences cheering at
the prospect of somebody dying because they don`t have health care and
booing a service member in Iraq because they`re gay. That`s not reflective
of who we are."

And at a Seattle fund-raiser the president nailed Republicans for their
attack on government. He said "An approach to government that will
fundamentally cripple America in meeting the challenges of the 21st
century". The Republican approach would fundamentally cripple America?
That`s pretty strong language. I`ve been on the road the last two weeks,
worked in six different cities. My take? These congressional Republicans,
they`re not fooling anybody. They see this president out there trying to
do something about jobs in this country. In the meantime, the do-nothing
Congress is doing nothing about jobs because of the obstructionists over on
the right.

But Mr. President, take it up just a little bit more. Start referring to
the speaker of the house as the jobless speaker or the do-nothing speaker.
Because I sense that the people out there who supported you, Mister
President, they love that kind of talk. They love this fight. They want
this fight. They know who`s standing in the way of making America`s
economy better. They understand the auto loan, they understand the
stimulus package. They are passionate to see you fight. And you know
what? I would say a month ago we couldn`t have put a series of sound bites
like that together of President Obama.

Tonight, we can. There`s no doubt he has turned the corner. In fact,
think he`s rewriting the manual of the 1948 Harry Truman campaign. And I
think it`s going to work. Republicans, if you have any moderate bones in
your body at all, step to the plate and do something about jobs. Because
only eight percent of the American people right now think that you ought to
go back and continue your job with your good salary, you`re health care,
and your pension. All the things the Republicans have been trying to take
away from middle classers in this country.

Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think. Tonight`s
question, will president Obama`s new aggressive stance win over
independents? Text "a" for yes, Text "b" for no to 622639. You can always
go to our blog and make a comment. We`d love you to do that.
And we`ll bring you the results of the poll later on in the show.

Let`s turn to Mike Papantonio, host of the Ring Of Fire Radio Show and
SIRIUS XM Radio show, my friend as well Joe Madison, two of the best in the
business, no doubt about it. Great to have you guys with us tonight.

Fellows, I got to say, a month ago we couldn`t put a series of sound bites
like that together, Joe Madison, what`s happening here? Tell us what`s
going on.

JOE MADISON, HOST, SIRIUS XM RADIO: Let me tell you, you missed one sound
bite. I was at the convention center in the speech. And it was really
interesting. The conservative talk show echo chamber tried to suggest that
he somehow embarrassed the congressional black caucus base and the people
who were there by saying, quit complaining. What the sound bite that
you`re going to have to find is where he lists a string of accomplishments.
I mean, it was just one after another. And then he said, in the spirit of
a Doctor King, in the spirit of the labor movement, look. We`ve got to get
out here and fight.

In other words, start calling the people who are blocking this and doing
nothing. That`s what that sound bite was about. That`s why the people
stood up and cheered. Because what they had heard that they hadn`t heard
in a long time, Ed, were all the accomplishments that were there.


MADISON: That`s the real sound bite.

SCHULTZ: You know I was out in Indiana on Saturday night speaking. They
get the auto loan. They know it`s not a bailout.


SCHULTZ: And they know it saved millions of jobs and it`s the untold story
and we try to bring it up as often as we can.

MADISON: I`m in Detroit today.


MADISON: You know, you want to talk about they get it. Oh, they get it
here in this city, yes.

SCHULTZ: They do get it. Mike, what do you make of the turn by the
president? It`s the campaign season?

MIKE PAPANTONIO, HOST, RING OF FIRE: Well, he is energizing his base, Ed.
It`s not that he`s just talking about the positives. He`s doing what he
has to do this time around. Look, last speech he gave, I heard him talking
about the idea, the day one Republicans are cheering that Perry is
executing Texans. Day two, the Republicans are cheering that Americans who
can`t get health insurance are dying of cancer. Day three, Republicans are
booing Iraqi veterans because they`re gay. He is on a tear. And I got to
tell you something. It`s not just him pumping up his positives. He
understands that American voters respect and they believe in a fighter.

They don`t want a Gandhi out there. They`re tired of this idea that Obama
is a Gandhi. He`s changing that image. I think truthfully, he`s always
been a fighter but we haven`t seen that side of him. He`s cornered now, he
has to be a fighter, and they want an FDR. They want a Truman. They want
a Kennedy. Obama has always been a great three-point shooter from the
point. Now you know what he`s doing, Ed? Now he`s moving up underneath
the rim, he`s moving up underneath the net, he`s throwing elbows and knees.
Republicans aren`t used to it. They don`t know how to react to all of

SCHULTZ: Gentlemen, I really believe that the president is going to have
to tell the people who supported him in 2008 that this is about power. The
Democrats have always been about people and opportunity, but at this point,
it`s about power because I don`t want to see a rerun of the last four
years. You know, I don`t want to see a rerun. I want to see a president
come out and saying, this is what we`re going to do on health care. This
is what we`re going to do on taxation. This is what we`re going to do to
fix our treasury. This is what we`re going to do for the war. Then give
me the votes and this is what we`re going to do. I think he`s going to
have to be far more definitive in moving forward saying, I realize now you
can`t negotiate with these people, it`s all about power. Joe Madison, what
about that?

MADISON: Well, I did want to make one correction. He`s not really that
great of a free throw shooter.


MADISON: But he`s practicing. But here`s what`s going on, guys. He is
really not in full, if you like it now, he`s not in full campaign mode. If
you notice, he`s not going after these guys who are debating each other.
He`s going after Washington.

SCHULTZ: He`s running against the congress, there`s no doubt about it.
He`s set is the scenario to run against the congress. On the same side,
Joe, and I want you to answer this, I don`t want did see a rerun. I think
the president needs to say, I`m going to be different in dealing with the
Republicans. I realize now it`s about power. I think that`s the next
step. Your thoughts.

MADISON: Oh, there are no ifs, ands, and buts about it. You`re looking at
a party who protects the top two percent that controls, what, two-thirds of
the wealth of this nation? He knows exactly what he`s doing. And I think
what he`s got to do is energize us enough. And here`s my main concern. We
can`t sit back, like he said, with you know with our bedroom slippers on
and not get out here and take on this congress.

SCHULTZ: Mike, will he be a different president the second time around?
Would president Obama be different dealing with the Republicans next time
around? What do you think?

PAPANTONIO: He realizes he has to be. It`s an easiest time when he does.
You know, this is it. This is it. If he`s going to be re-elected, it`s
going to be his last four years, he can change this country. He`s out
there right now, out of the beltway, out of that echo chamber that comes
from Kaye Street (ph). He`s shaking hands with Americans. He`s hearing
things that people are surprised, that he`s surprised to hear. He`s
hearing that Americans were disappointed that he didn`t fight a little bit
harder at least they perceive that he didn`t.

SCHULTZ: Here`s the president tonight at a fund-raiser. Here`s what he
had to say in Los Angeles tonight. Here it is.


OBAMA: America used to have the best infrastructure. That`s what made us
an economic super power. And right now we`ve got millions of folks who are
out of work and ready to get on the job. Let`s put them back to work right
now rebuilding America. By the way, these are ideas that are traditionally
Republican and democratic ideas. Republicans used to love to build stuff.
I don`t know where suddenly they decide that`s a democratic idea.


SCHULTZ: Mike, what do you think of that?

PAPANTONIO: Well, he`s right on his message. Look, they don`t want to see
Amy Vanderbilt, miss manners. This is the best of Obama, we`re seeing it.
If his advisers will let him be himself and get away from the Amy
Vanderbilt, miss manners image, he is going to hurt the Republicans these
86 few months.


MADISON: He used that line at the congressional black caucus. So, they
used to love to build roads. You know, what happened? Now they don`t want
to build roads. But you know what I think happened? Was the debt ceiling
debate? I think he saw, you know, darn it, finally, he got it. They are -
he finally believed that McConnell, Limbaugh, and Boehner -

SCHULTZ: The whole crowd.

MADISON: They don`t care. They will bring the economy down just to get
him out of office. And I think the American people are saying we`re not
going to go for that. We are Americans.

SCHULTZ: Mike Papantonio, Joe Madison, great to have you guys with us
tonight. Thanks so much.

Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the screen.
We want to know what you think on our poll tonight.

Only two Republican presidential candidates have had the guts to come on
"The Ed Show" with a real liberal. One of them is coming back for more.
Former senator Rick Santorum will join me a little later on the program.

And Rick Perry loses to the pizza candidate from the sunshine state. Stay
with us. We will be right back.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to "The Ted Show." Now, the next Republican debate
is going to be on October 11th on this Bloomberg. And I really want them
to use this chart. I`ve shown you this chart before. The red line is the
income growth for the richest one percent of Americans since 1979. Look at
that. The blue line of course is the average wage growth over the same
period of time. It`s almost totally flat.

The average wage earner in America isn`t making much more than he or she
was some 30 years ago. I mean it`s the graph from "mother Jones." But the
wealthiest Americans, well, they`re up 240 percent. I guess you could say
these are the job-creators over here. The wages aren`t doing anything, are
they? And I`ve been begging any Republican to come on this show. I`m not
trying to be a jerk, just come on the show and provide some answers for the
middle-class Americans who are down here. How can they know the truth
about this chart and still promise tax cuts for the top one percent?

Well, one Republican has answered my challenge. Presidential candidate
Rick Santorum was on the show exactly two weeks ago, the last night of the
tea party debate and he said he would get Americans back to work by cutting
corporate tax rate and bringing American jobs back from overseas. I`m all
about it.

Well, what I want to know, what is his plan for any of the Republicans, for
that matter, for the 99 percent who have barely seen their incomes go up
over the last three decades? I guess you could call it trickle-up
economics. Does any Republican candidate really have a plan for the middle
class? And why is it that the Republican candidates, they never talk about
the middle class? President Obama`s talking about the middle class. And
some other members of Congress are talking about the middle class. Maybe
we can get Rick Santorum to talk about the middle class next. Stay with



RICK SANTORUM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I do not believe that state,
federal or local workers, unions, should be involved in unions. And I
would actually support a bill that says that we should not have public
employee unions for the purposes of wages and benefits to be negotiated.



SCHULTZ: Well, this shouldn`t surprise you but I don`t have a lot in
common with anyone who thinks that we should get rid of public employee
unions. Now, we might not agree on much but Senator Rick Santorum is not
afraid to come on the program and talk about the issues and I appreciate
it. The former senator from Pennsylvania joins me tonight from his home

Rick, I appreciate your time very much. You know, I just want some
straight-talking answers. I`m not here to dun you tonight. This is not an
ambush, OK? Or anything likes that. But I need -

SANTORUM: Hey, Ed. I`m packing. So don`t worry. I`m ready.

SCHULTZ: That`s good, I`m a firearms owner too, but I won`t use it here in
this interview. Tax cuts for the wealthy. We`ve had tax cuts for the
wealthy. Where are the jobs? Why haven`t we had the job creation that
everybody wants if all the breaks have gone to the top income earners?
Basic question.

SANTORUM: Yes, well, I would say that what we need to do, and this is why
I propose the tax plan that I have, is to do something to create that
wealth that`s being generated, as you saw in that chart, by those who are
the creators, the innovators, the folks that are, you know, driving this
economy. And the problem is that too many of the products that have been
invented and created and by the Steve jobs of this world and others are not
being made in America. So you`re not seeing the wage growth.

I talk about when I was growing up as a kid in butler, Pennsylvania, 21
percent of the workforce was involved in manufacturing. Now it`s nine.
And as you know, if you want to, if you want those higher-wage jobs, then
you`re going to have to do it in something that`s going to make something,
that`s going to create real wealth. And so my plan is to get manufacturing
going again in America.

SCHULTZ: I`m all about it.

SANTORUM: Some manufacturing jobs here - I know you are. And that`s why I
think we can get bipartisan support for what I`m doing.

SCHULTZ: I just don`t hear any other Republicans talk about manufacturing
whatsoever. But back to the point, you can`t raise taxes on the job
creators. That`s what we hear from every Republican. Well, we haven`t
rated taxes on the job creators. So where are the jobs?

SANTORUM: Well, I would say what we need to do is to be competitive in
getting those jobs back to America. And if you look at what China and
Indonesia and Mexico have done, they`ve created sort of sweetheart deals
for manufacturers to go there. In addition to low labor rates, in addition
to litigation - no litigation that`s -

SCHULTZ: But senator -

SANTORUM: In addition to regulations -

SCHULTZ: I think a fair point that needs to be made - you`re saying the
same answer again and I get that. The point that is we have given - we
need money in the treasury. Now, whether we expand the tax base by
creating more jobs, we need more money in the treasury, no question. But
we have given breaks. And the Republicans to a "T" say you can`t raise
taxes on the job creators. Why aren`t they investing those tax breaks into
American jobs? It`s easy to do. All you got to do is create something.
Why aren`t they doing that?

SANTORUM: Well, obviously they invested a lot of those monies in jobs for
a long time. We had three, four percent unemployment rates. So they were.
But as you point out and as I agree with you, that what we need to do is
create, revitalize that sector of the economy that creates real wage
growth. We`ve had people stock in the bottom couple of quintiles and we
need to create job growth and - excuse me - growth in wages by bringing
back this manufacturing sector. So I would say that the overall policy is
a good one, except that we haven`t focused on where we need to if we want
to create the kind of you know wage, wage inflation, if you will, that we
need to create a vibrant middle of America and that`s what my plan -

SCHULTZ: Senator, we`ve been through Reagan`s tax cuts, we have been
through Bush 41, Bush 43. OK? We saw 22 million jobs created during the
Clinton years. OK? So since the 1980s, OK, now we`ve got President Obama
as the second democratic president. The point being here is, the economic
plan for the Republicans to continually give the tax breaks to the top,
can`t you admit it just hasn`t worked and we`ve got to do something

SANTORUM: Well, I would say that it certainly has worked in a lot of
respects. I mean, we had very low rates of unemployment. We had record
low rates of unemployment for quite a long time in this country until we
had the catastrophe that was caused in large part by the housing industry
Fannie and Freddie (ph) -

SCHULTZ: Which was deregulation, which Republicans push a lot of?

SANTORUM: No, no, it wasn`t deregulation, it was for Fannie and Freddie
holding all these assets they shouldn`t have been holding then we need to
have less being held by these folks. And that`s one of the - I was one of
the people that sign a letter back in 2005 and six and said we better
reform these two institutions or we`re going to have a meltdown, and that`s
exactly what happened. So, you know part of it, part of it was government
regulation and government markets that caused the bubble and caused the
loose lending practices that lent to the problems.

SCHULTZ: Well, it was deregulation that took us to where we are in the
housing market, there`s no question about that, and we should have never
had that regulation leave us in 1999. Finally the next thing -

SANTORUM: No, we -

SCHULTZ: You know, we keep -

SANTORUM: We had a lot of regulation that forced a lot of the folks who
should not have been buying homes to get those homes -

SCHULTZ: NO, I will tell you what - I will tell you the job market,
senator, what`s hurt the job market is the outsourcing of jobs. And
through all of these debates -

SANTORUM: I agree.

SCHULTZ: We have not heard any Republican candidate say outsourcing in any
of these -

SANTORUM: Excuse me.

SCHULTZ: That`s where America is right now.

SANTORUM: Excuse me.

SCHULTZ: And the profits at the top are going overseas.

SANTORUM: That`s what I`m talking about.

SCHULTZ: The profits are going overseas and nobody`s got a plan to bring
it back. I did hear you. All right.

SANTORUM: Well, I have a plan to bring it back. And it`s to create an
atmosphere in this country where manufacturers can get a good return on
their investment. That`s the plan I`m putting forward.

SCHULTZ: If you were the nominee, if you were the nominee, would you run
on a platform to make the Bush tax cuts permanent?

SANTORUM: Oh, absolutely. I think we just need to keep the rates - that`s
pretty much. We need certainty in the environment right now.


SANTORUM: We can`t be looking at folks saying, we`re going to increase
taxes on job creators.

SCHULTZ: All right.

SANTORUM: Let`s keep the tax rates where they are and focus in on one
particular area, which is manufacturing. Let`s create a zero percent
corporate tax on manufacturers so we can bring those jobs back here to this
country, allow the folks who did -

SCHULTZ: Senator, appreciate it. You`re on that subject, there`s no doubt
about it.

SANTORUM: That`s what you want me to talk about, you asked me to come here
and talk about how -

SCHULTZ: That`s good, I appreciate it. But you also said, but just said
that you would go along with the failed economic policy to continue to give
tax breaks to the wealthiest Americans. And the majority of Americans
don`t agree with that position. I`ve got to point that out. I`ll have you
back again if we can, I`m out of time. I got to run. Former Senator Rick
Santorum with us here on "The Ed Show."

Scott Walker took his anti-public education act to New York today. We have
a batch of state reaction in my "playbook." And Rush Limbaugh doesn`t
think President Obama is authentically black. The Dragster back with us
tonight. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: In Psycho Talk tonight, Rush Limbaugh likes to say he`s
color blind. Of course, anyone who listened to his radio show for five
minutes knows that`s hogwash. Here`s what he had to say today while he was
congratulating pizza candidate Herman Cain for winning the Florida straw


RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: We could be on the brink of an
historic election. Herman Cain goes on to win the Republican presidential
nomination. And then goes on to be elected president. Herman Cain could
be our first authentically black president. Stop and think about that.


SCHULTZ: Oh, I`m thinking about it, Rush. And you`re full of it.
President Obama was authentically black enough for you when you spent the
last four years taking racially charged shots at him.


LIMBAUGH: We have to bend over, grab the ankles. Bend over forward,
backward, whichever. Because his father was black, because this is the
first black president.

How do you get promoted to the Barack Obama administration? By hating
white people. In Obama`s America, the white kids now get beat up, with
black kids cheering right on, right on, right on, right on.

The triple-double Oreo. It`s actually a biracial cookie. You wait.
It isn`t going to be long before it`s called the Orbamio (ph), or something
like this.

Barack the magic Negro, doo, doo, doo, doo.

How many votes did Obama get because he was black? Shocking number,
folks. If Obama weren`t black, he`d be a tour guide in Honolulu.


SCHULTZ: Those comments just the tip of the iceberg. Limbaugh has
made millions by spewing racist garbage. For him to say President Obama is
not authentically black is outrageous Psycho Talk.

O`Reilly still whining about his taxes. Eric Boehlert will help
analyze his latest temper tantrum.

And Rick Perry`s embarrassing debate performance on Thursday was just
the beginning of a long losing weekend for the Texas governor.
Conservatives are saying he`s done. I don`t think so. We`ll talk about it


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. Rick Perry`s self-destruction
continues. It all started during last week`s Republican debate, when he
gave answers like this one.


that was on the side of -- against the Second Amendment, before he was for
the Second Amendment? Was it was -- before he was before the social
programs from the standpoint of he was for standing up for Roe versus Wade,
before he was against versus -- Roe versus Wade?

He was for Race to the Top? He`s for Obamacare, and now he`s against


SCHULTZ: All right, not so hot. Perry followed up on his disastrous
debate performance with a big loss in the Florida straw poll. He spent
more time and money in Florida than his competitors, but still only got 15
percent of the vote. Former Godfather CEO pizza man Herman Cain won the
straw poll -- I was surprised at this -- with 37 percent.

The folks on Fox, well, they`re already writing Perry`s political


BRIT HUME, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Perry really did throw up all over
himself in the debate, at a time when he need to raise his game.

Perry is about one half a step away from almost total collapse as a


SCHULTZ: Really? You think so, Mr. Hume? It`s not all bad news for
Rick Perry. He`s still leading the Republican field in a new nationwide
poll, coming in at 28 percent, seven point ahead of Mitt Romney at 21
percent. And that takes into consideration the event that took place the
other night.

Joining me now is Jim Moore. He is a "Huffington Post" contributor
and author of the forthcoming book, "Adios Mofo, Why Rick Perry will Make
America Miss George W. Bush."

Also with me tonight is Steve Kornacki, political columnist for Steve, let me ask you, is it history for Rick Perry? Is it
over for him?

STEVE KORNACKI, SALON.COM: I wouldn`t go that far, just because of
the poll you just showed there. He`s still up. I would say, though, I`m
really curious to see another poll when it takes into account sort of not
just the debate itself, but the week or so that`s followed it, because it`s
been a very rough four days for him so far.

You look at that clip you showed in the debate, and you look at the
result from Florida, and I think both of those are very strong signs that,
at the very least, we could say this guy is totally failing to live up to
his potential. Because the promise of the Rick Perry candidacy to
Republicans was he could pull off that line. He could confront Mitt Romney
on all these crimes against conservatism, and he could speak for the base.

Instead, he flubbed it. The promise of Rick Perry was all these sort
of second-tier conservative true believers, the Michele Bachmanns, the
Herman Cains, the Rick Santorums, they go away because now the base has
somebody. Herman Cain wins a straw poll like that, they`re not going away

SCHULTZ: Jim Moore, OK, so he stumbled in a debate. The fact is he`s
got a southern strategy, which would be much stronger than Mitt Romney.
Where are we right now with the Perry camp?

JIM MOORE, AUTHOR "ADIOS MOFO": It turns out that straw polls, Ed,
are nothing more than silly entertainment. I don`t know of any straw poll
that`s ever been very rat accurate in terms of predicting a president.
Those several hundred people who gave that victory to Herman Cain heard a
very great speech from him at that convention, in the wake of Perry`s poor
performance. Then they melted away into a population of Florida which
gives a large lead right now to Rick Perry.

I think the important question to ask is where would these disaffected
Perry voters go? We know they aren`t going to Romney. They`ve already
left Michele Bachmann. Herman Cain will get some of them. Are they going
to Rick Santorum? Not likely. So they might be disaffected temporarily, I

But eventually, they end up coming back to Rick Perry because he has
their basic, hard-right conservative values.

SCHULTZ: Steve, is this now the opening for Chris Christie of New

KORNACKI: It`s interesting. I still don`t think Chris Christie will
run at the end of the day. But I`m talking about all these symptoms of why
it`s failing for Rick Perry. Here`s another one. The promise of the Rick
Perry candidacy was we were going to stop hearing about Chris Christie. We
were going to stop hearing about how there was room for a savior, for a
white knight --

SCHULTZ: He can`t control if conservatives are meeting with him.

KORNACKI: Right, they wouldn`t be meeting with him --

SCHULTZ: You got Bill Crystal over there throwing his name out. The
network is now pushing for Chris Christie to jump into this thing, because
they`re not happy with Rick Perry.

KORNACKI: If Rick Perry was getting it done as a candidate the way he
was supposed to be, Bill Crystal wouldn`t be saying, I want Chris Christie
in this race. Roger Ailes wouldn`t be saying, I want Chris Christie in
this race.

SCHULTZ: Don`t you think some of that is that they can`t control this
guy. This guy is true a radical Tea Partier.

KORNACKI: He is. But it also shows I think the deficiencies with
Rick Perry and the Republican base that have come to light. I think
chiefly immigration is one of the issues here.

SCHULTZ: What about that, Jim?

MOORE: Well, immigration is a problem for him. But, again, go back
to the base. They`re going to look around and they`re going to see where
Romney is, and they`re going to see where Cain is. They`re eventually
going to have to decide, who do we turn to? Do we turn to somebody that we
like on the broadest number of issues? Or do we toss him out just because
of this question of immigration?

And he fumbled that. He should have explained his position much more
clearly, because it hurt him. But I don`t think they`re going to toss the
baby out with the bath water in terms of Perry.

KORNACKI: I think there`s one other thing to consider here. And I
know it`s a little early on this. But we`ve now seen six or seven polls in
key 2012 battleground states and national polls that have shown Rick Perry
significantly under performing against Barack Obama compared to Mitt
Romney, polls that show Romney basically even with Obama and Perry running
seven, eight, nine points behind.

I think that`s a serious consideration --

SCHULTZ: You think the Republicans will match that up and make that

KORNACKI: When you look at the mood of the Republican base, I know
they`re very conservative, but they are furiously anti-Obama, as you`ve
seen. If it comes down to, hey, we`re going to let this guy get a free
pass for a second term, I don`t know if they`ll do that.

SCHULTZ: Jim Moore?

MOORE: Romney can`t win the nomination. That`s the problem. Romney
cannot win in the south because of his religion and because of the way he
has waffled on a number of major, significant issues.

KORNACKI: Said that about John McCain four years ago.

SCHULTZ: Actually, Rick Perry I thought did a good job of stumbling
because that`s exactly what Mitt Romney`s been doing for five years,
stumbling all over all kinds of issues, falling all over the place.

Jim Moore, Steve Kornacki, thanks. Great to have you with us tonight.

Wisconsin public schools are under attack. And Scott Walker peddling
his anti-education plan right here in the Big Apple. I`ll take him to
school in the Playbook. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: In my Playbook tonight, the most anti-public education
governor in America came to the Big City to brag about his record. This
afternoon, Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker took part in NBC`s "Education
Nation" program. Walker`s participation in the event drew intense
opposition from people in the Badger State.

An activist from Sun Prairie, Wisconsin, wrote an open letter to NBC`s
Brian Williams, urging him to question Walker`s record. Williams asked
Walker about the letter.


BRIAN WILLIAMS, "NBC NIGHTLY NEWS": Of all the people here today, you
were the only governor who was the subject of a social media campaign aimed
at us, including this open letter sent to us. I got several copies of
this. It`s posted on the web.

And they all begin, "Mr. Williams, I was shocked to learn that you are
featuring Governor Scott, quote, `Teachers Are Thugs` Walker on your

I`ll spare you most of it. Again, you can read it on the web. None
of it will surprise you.

One paragraph in here reads "Walker cut 1.6 billion dollars from
Wisconsin`s public education budget over two years, even as he passes out
tax breaks like candy and increases public funding to private and charter
schools. Most districts in the state had to deal with these cuts this year
by forcing our top commodity, experienced teachers, into early retirement,
and get some short-term balance in hiring new, less-expensive teachers."

Governor, knowing what you know now, having been through what you`ve
been through in Wisconsin, won`t this mean, for years to come, a deeply
suspicious, antagonized teacher workforce?

GOV. SCOTT WALKER (R), WISCONSIN: No, I think in the end -- September
1st was a key date for us. September one, my two sons, Matt and Alex, who
go to a public high school in the state of Wisconsin, went back to school
just like kids did all across our state. In the end, what people saw in
our schools was, in the most part, they were the same or better.


SCHULTZ: "The same or better?" The author of that letter joins us
now, Heather Dubois Bournene. Heather, good to have you with us tonight.

What`s your response to Governor Walker`s answer right there? "The
same or better" after cutting 1.6 billion from the budget?

schools are the same or better, because our teachers are the same, and just
as good as they always have been; dedicated to the students, dedicated to
the education system of Wisconsin, and unlike our governor, actually
engaged in the act of education.

What is not the same or better, however, is the state of education in
Wisconsin and the budgets with which the teachers are forced to negotiate a
new way of approaching the struggles they have to face in the classroom
every day. Therefore, facing all kinds of cuts across the board. And
Walker`s refusal to acknowledge those is just disgusting.

SCHULTZ: Is he trying to abolish public education in Wisconsin?

BOURNENE: I don`t think he`s trying to abolish it entirely. But I
think that he is definitely trying to disinvest in it, at the expense of
the majority of our students, as he invests extremely heavily in private
and charter schools.

SCHULTZ: How in the world can you make 1.6 billion dollars in cuts,
and expect to have the same product? How can the people of Wisconsin
expect to have the same public school system?

BOURNENE: You can`t. It`s not going to happen, Ed. Making these
kind of cuts forces the school districts to compromise so many things in so
many ways. And the costs of this on our kids will be seen for a generation
to come.

SCHULTZ: He says that they gave school districts the tools for
reform. What is that code for?

BOURNENE: Tools is Walker`s code for cuts. He talks about tools and
he talks about jobs. Scott Walker is a tool job, someone who talks about
both things all the time and produces neither.

SCHULTZ: Will he get recalled, in your opinion?

BOURNENE: He`ll definitely be recalled, and as soon as possible. I
think that he does not have the support of the people of this state. And
after writing to him myself for so many months and being ignored, and
seeing the shocked look on his face as Mr. Williams kindly read him the
letter that I wrote, just goes to show that he`s not really interested in
hearing from his constituents.

If your boss sends you an e-mail and you don`t reply -- your boss
sends you 50 e-mails and you still don`t reply, you`re fired. Scott Walker
works for us and he`s not doing his job.

SCHULTZ: Heather Dubois Bournene, thank you for joining us tonight.
I appreciate it very. >

Coming up, O`Reilly gives a history lesson and gets it wrong. Eric
Boehlert of Media Matters will join me. You`re watching THE ED SHOW, on


SCHULTZ: Oh, poor Bill O`Reilly. He`s still whining about his taxes.
And he`s now attempting to rewrite history to help his cause. Here`s a
dandy for you. O`Reilly wants President Obama to follow President
Kennedy`s example by lowering taxes for the mega wealthy.




SCHULTZ: But O`Reilly`s point is misleading. Economic continues --
economic conditions were much different back then. There was little debt,
because President Eisenhower kept taxes high. You see, Republicans used to
approach this whole tax thing much differently.

So when Kennedy came along, he lowered the top tax -- marginal tax
from 91 percent to 65 percent. Today, the top marginal rate is at a
historic low of 35 percent.

The Warren Buffett Rule would raise the top rate to Clinton-era
levels. It would also probably raise capital gains taxes. That`s taxes on
investment income.

In one of his rants last week, O`Reilly brought up his opposition to
raising capital gains taxes.


BILL O`REILLY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Now you want to up the ante on my
winnings. But you don`t say how much, because the stock market will go
nuts if you do.

With all due respect, the tax the rich deal is bogus.


SCHULTZ: It turns out O`Reilly already negotiated a hike in his
capital gains taxes three years ago with a guy named Barack Obama.


O`REILLY: Listen, if you raise the cap gains tax, that`s going to
inhibit investment. I won`t buy as many stocks and many, many more people

OBAMA: If we went up to a prohibitive rate, you`re right but look --

O`REILLY: Thirty percent, that`s Vegas, man. I`m not going with
those odds. Fifteen I`ll pay, not 30.

OBAMA: Let`s say we go up to 20.

O`REILLY: Twenty`s OK. Not 25.

OBAMA: There you and I agree.


SCHULTZ: Bill O`Reilly was willing to pay five percent more on his
capital gapes taxes in 2008. Now he`s crying about having to pay his fair
share. I thought you were in a no spin zone.

Joining me now, Eric Boehlert, senior fellow Media Matters. That clip
of him agreeing to a tax increase doesn`t look good for old Bill O`Reilly,
does it?

ERIC BOEHLERT, MEDIA MATTERS: No, last week, he was saying if Obama
raises taxes, he was going to quit his show, which created this outpouring
of good will among liberals everywhere, who were hoping it would be a win-
win. Then this week, he`s saying Kennedy -- more recently, he`s saying
let`s do what Kennedy did.

Well, he moved it from 90 to 60. How is that going to help him, when
the current rate is 35?

SCHULTZ: We got a flip by the big guy, huh?

BOEHLERT: He`s got flips all over the place. The idea that we`re
having Bill O`Reilly as sort of the face of the public tax debate in the
United States -- he`s representing conservatives. He`s sort of a media
elite who makes 10 million dollars a year. He`s going to represent the
common man, kind of comical.

SCHULTZ: Is he and that network on a mission to sell America that a
tax increase for the wealthy would be a terrible idea?

BOEHLERT: Oh, yeah, absolutely. They worship at the altar of big
business. It`s beyond that, they worship at the altar of millionaires now.
It`s not the old conservative philosophy of big business. What`s good for
GM is good for Main Street. They`re beyond that. It`s much more radical

SCHULTZ: Roger Ailes admitted to "Newsweek" -- in a quite, he says,
"every other network has given their shows to liberals. We are the
balance." So Fox News has gone from fair and balanced to we are the
balance. What does that mean?

BOEHLERT: That means he`s spinning. He`s saying, you know, we are
part of the mainstream. If Fox News embarrassing the Birther movement,
which it did this year, is mainstream, then I guess they`re viewing things
from the John Birch Society. He`s trying to spin it, saying, we`re pulling
back. We`re going to be more mainstream now. They are as and as Obama-
hating as ever.

SCHULTZ: And O`REilly said that he`d pack it in if the taxes go up.

BOEHLERT: That`s right.

SCHULTZ: Is this showmanship or is he really thinking about getting
out of it?

BOEHLERT: We can only hope.

SCHULTZ: The Bush tax cuts are going to expire at the end of 2012.
So Will O`Reilly be on the air in 2013? He`ll be hit with that.

BOEHLERT: He`ll just flip-flop. He`s never going to walk away.
Again, the idea if his taxes went up, he`d quit, that`s fantastic.

SCHULTZ: So, on one hand, he used to be for it. Now he`s against it.

BOEHLERT: That`s right.

SCHULTZ: I wonder what happened to him. Anything happen that might
have changed his position on that?

BOEHLERT: Just doing the usual spin, I think.

SCHULTZ: Eric Boehlert, Media Matters, good to have you with us

That`s THE ED SHOW. I`m Ed Schultz. "THE LAST WORD" with Lawrence
O`Donnell starts right now.

You can always listen to my radio show at Sirius 127, XM as well.
We`ll see you.


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