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The Ed Show for Wednesday, October 26, 2011

Read the transcript to the Wednesday show

Guests: Vincent Fort, Laura Flanders, Justin Elliott, Richard Viguerie, Alan Grayson, Steven Rattner, Henry Cuellar, Joe Wurzelbacher

ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. And welcome to THE ED
SHOW tonight from New York.

Tensions are running high at some of the "Occupy" events around the
country, with arrests in Atlanta, and tear gas being used in Oakland. It`s
just like the good old days. People are protesting failed Republican
policies that have left the 99 percent behind.

Congressman Paul Ryan of Wisconsin, though, he thinks President Obama
is the one that`s got the crowd all worked up. They are on the defensive.

This is THE ED SHOW -- let`s get to work.


SCHULTZ (voice-over): More than 100 protesters arrested in Oakland
last night. And the 99 percent movement isn`t slowing down.

In Atlanta, Georgia State Senator Vincent Fort was arrested during the
raid on "Occupy Atlanta." Tonight, he`s my guest exclusively.

The Mitt Romney flip-flop on workers` rights in Ohio is now a triple

confusion in that regard. I fully support Governor Kasich`s -- I think
it`s called question two in Ohio.

SCHULTZ: I`ll ask conservative icon Richard Viguerie if Romney can

Today, warrior for the 1 percent. Paul Ryan opened up on the
president for dividing the country.

REP. PAUL RYAN (R), WISCONSIN: Sowing social unrest and class
resentment makes America weaker, not stronger.

SCHULTZ: Congressman Alan Grayson is here to set Mr. Ryan straight.

And at 9 percent approval rating, Congress is circling the drain.
Candidate Joe the plumber says he can fix the pipes. He`ll join me.


SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks.

You know, we may have entered a new stage in the occupy Wall Street
movement. This was the scene last night in Oakland, California.


SCHULTZ: Is this America? You better believe it is. We`re
witnessing 30 years of failed Republican economic policies, all coming to a

Now, just two months after the movement began, patience is wearing
thin. It was a violent night on the streets of Oakland. Police and
protesters facing off for six hours over, over 1,000 protesters, over 100

Authorities say the decision to move some of the protesters from a
makeshift camp at a local park was based on public health and safety. But
Oakland police felt the need to eventually use tear gas.


where we had to deploy gas in order to stop the crowd, the people from
pelting us with bottles and rocks.


SCHULTZ: Flash grenades and rubber bullets were also reportedly used
to control the crowd by other police agencies. Two police officers were
injured. The number of injured protesters is not yet known.





UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened? What happened?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s your name? What`s your name? What`s your

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s your name?



SCHULTZ: His name is Scott Olsen. He`s a 24-year-old originally from
Wisconsin. He served two tours of duty in Iraq. He`s a veteran.

And tonight, he is in critical condition with a fractured skull in an
Oakland hospital.

At this hour, Oakland police are bracing for the possibility of more
violence. The protesters are vowing to return.

Meanwhile, over 50 were arrested in protests in Atlanta, Georgia,
including State Senator Vincent Fort who will join us in just a moment.
Our affiliate WXIA was on the scene.


REPORTER: Tensions between city leaders and occupy protesters have
been rising for days.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is getting ready to come to a conclusion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Occupy Atlanta`s" voice is the voice of people
who have no job.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you want to be arrested --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the spot we want to make a circle.

REPORTER: Now dozens waking up in jail, but vowing to continue their

Will you get arrested again?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ll see. The occupation will continue in one
form or another.


SCHULTZ: After a night of protests on both coasts, today, Republicans
are accusing President Obama of sewing the seeds of discontent.


RYAN: Instead of appealing to the hope and optimism that were the
hallmarks to his first campaign, he has launched his second campaign by
preying on the emotions of fear, envy and resentment.


SCHULTZ: I have been to several of these protests. There is anger
and resentment at the policies that have left over 25 million Americans
unemployed in this country.

President Obama has a real jobs plan on the table, trying to get
something done, something that we have not seen from the Republicans. The
obstruction in Washington at a time of national economic crisis has sent
people into the streets.

Now what? These people aren`t in the streets because they hate
America. They are in the streets because they love this country. They
want to realize the chance at the American Dream.

Let`s see. Jobs are scarce. Wages are stagnant. Fifty million
people in this country have no health insurance.

Student loan debt is now at $1 trillion. That beats the credit card

Then, there`s the foreclosure crisis that continues. Republicans
don`t want to do anything about that, either.

By the way, public education is under attack.

Did I tell you that small businesses just can`t seem to get loans and
credit`s tight?

And, of course, there`s this thing called, I think it`s called a
supercommittee. They`re out there now and they want to slash Social
Security, Medicare and Medicaid. Congress is at a 9 percent approval

And you want to know why people are in the streets in this country?
There is your answer.

But here`s your next question. Who is going to be the first
Republican to stand up and say, maybe we better work with this president?
Maybe the country has had too much obstruction. Maybe all of these
filibusters have just taken a ride on the people of the American people --
on the point of the American people where they are in the streets for maybe
our actions.

Maybe we got to do something. Maybe government does have to get
involved in some form, some way, some fashion -- because the discontent
isn`t going to go away tonight. It`s not going to go away tomorrow. And
Congress` approval rating isn`t going to shoot through the roof any time
soon, 9 percent.

Boehner, Cantor, show some leadership. President Obama has put olive
branches outside the window of the White House time and time again. He`s
laid your proposals on the table and you`ve said no.

Show some movement. That will change these protests in this country.

But now, these protests are going into an entirely new phase. Who the
hell knows where they`re going now? I want to know what you think.

Tonight`s question: has the 99 percent movement reached a turning
point? Text "A" for yes, text "B" for no to 622639. We love your comments
on our blog at We`ll bring you the results later on in the

Joining me as promised is Georgia State Senator Vincent Fort.

Senator, good to have you with us tonight.

You were arrested, and I want to ask -- did you do something to get

ST. SEN. VINCENT FORT (D), GEORGIA: Yes, I did. I sat down with the
99 percenters and peacefully protested, and I was handcuffed and put in
jail and got out just a few hours ago.

SCHULTZ: How did you feel about that?

FORT: I was not happy about it. I think it`s unfortunate that Mayor
Kasim Reed did what he did. This was a very peaceful situation. It was, I
think, the safest place in Atlanta. And for the mayor to send in dozens of
police, hundreds of police, rather, horses, helicopters, was overkill.

And in the hometown of Dr. King and the civil rights movement, for the
mayor to do that I think was the wrong thing to do. He should have joined
us and not fought against us.

But I think he`s done us a favor. I think he`s energized this
movement and I think it`s going to pick up even more steam. The "Occupy
Atlanta" movement is here to stay.

SCHULTZ: Well, I was going to ask you, and I think you answered some
of that question. Where does it go from here? Is this going to subside in
any way, shape or form?

FORT: I don`t think so. I don`t think so. I think the "Occupy
Atlanta" movement, although it`s very nonviolent, is angrier than ever, and
more committed than ever to bring a change to Atlanta.

Atlanta, in particular, and Georgia in general, has suffered through
the top five in the country in joblessness, in foreclosures, homelessness
is rampant, around the state capital, around city hall.

So, I think the mayor may have done us a favor by doing what he did
last night in arresting us. I think it`s energized an already energized

SCHULTZ: Senator Fort, what do you -- what`s your response when you
hear Congressman Paul Ryan suggesting that the president of the United
States is the guy who was preying on fear and resentment? What do you say
to that?

FORT: I think that`s nonsense. There is class warfare going on in
this country. It`s been going on for a long time. But I think it`s a war
on working people.

What happened in Wisconsin, what`s happening in Ohio is just one
instance of it. And now, you have a movement that`s pushing a back against
the Republican and right wing`s assault on wages and bargaining rights.

So I agree with him to that extent. There is a war -- class warfare
going on. But I don`t think Barack Obama had anything to do with it.

I think the Republicans did a good enough job of fighting or
committing war on working people.

SCHULTZ: And you will go back and protest again, I hear?

FORT: I will go back as often as necessary to make sure that the
public and the community at large understands that corporate greed is what
has put us in this mess.


FORT: Corporate greed by the big banks have devastated many
neighborhoods in my district and around Atlanta.

Bank of America, Wells Fargo, have done their subprime lending in
these neighborhoods. Now, they`re foreclosing on the American Dream for a
lot of my constituents. For that reason, I`m going to be with the "Occupy
Atlanta" movement as long as it takes to change some things in Atlanta and
in this country.

SCHULTZ: Georgia State Senator Vincent Fort, you`re a brave man. I
appreciate you coming on the program tonight. Thanks so much. We`ll
reconnect with you again because as you say, this isn`t going away.

Now, let`s turn to Laura Flanders, host of "Free Speech TV" and Justin
Elliott, reporter for

Oakland, California, had a lot of violence last night. The mayor of
Oakland has just made a statement. I want to go to this videotape. Here
it is.


MAYOR JEAN QUAN (D), OAKLAND: It`s a tough time for America. We`re
trying to find the right thing to do. I`m going to try to be working with
the community groups. We`re going to try to work with the demonstrators.

They have very unusual organizations, very flat. They`re generally
anti-government. But this is something that we hope that we can make
progress on.


SCHULTZ: Laura Flanders, what do you make of that?

LAURA FLANDERS, FREE SPEECH TV: First off, it is appalling the
brutality that was used against these young people and the people of
"Occupy Wall Street" in Oakland last night. Appalling.

SCHULTZ: Are we into a new phase now?

FLANDERS: But it is not a few phase of the protest. That`s one thing
I`d correct you on, Ed. It`s a new phase of policing.

Tensions were not rising among the protesters. I was there a week
ago. Organized, very structured situation where people were doing their
own policing and dealing with some very basic needs that have been left
abandoned by our public servants in this time of public austerity.

The policing tactics that we used last night -- again, we need to
understand the crowd was as riled up as it was because of the tactics that
had been used to shut down the encampment earlier that day.

The protest was to protest the shutdown of the camp. And again, let`s
think of the irony of public servants, supposedly the police, using the
argument on public safety to shut down a public forum that is drawing
attention to the very real threats to the public safety posed by the
consolidation of wealth and power and very few hands in this country.

SCHULTZ: Justin, what do we know about that Iraq war veteran that was
injured last night and is in critical condition?

JUSTIN ELLIOTT, SALON.COM: Well, yes, I mean, I think the latest is
he`s still in the hospital. People are unclear about what sort of
projectile he was hit by. I believe the Oakland Police Department is
claiming that it was not one of their projectiles. But I don`t see how --
I mean, unless a protester had a tear gas gun, I don`t see how it was
anything else.

I mean, witnesses on the scene say it was some sort of a police
projectile, whether a tear gas canister or flash bang grenade or something

I mean, the display last night woke up a lot of people to, you know,
the militarization of the police department in this decade, which I think
is a trend that`s been going on for a couple of decades.

SCHULTZ: So, where does it go from here?

ELLIOTT: Well, I mean, look, I think the protesters in Oakland are
planning on going out I believe about an hour from right now. But, and I
think the police tactics are going to be protested. But I think it would
be a mistake for the protesters to make this about the police in the long

I mean, I think the question is, how do you use the attention this
police overreaction and apparent, you know, show of violence, how do you
use that to get back to the core message that got everyone out there, which
is economic injustice?

SCHULTZ: And, Laura, in the meantime, the Republicans are out there,
you know, depicting this crowd as malcontents, anarchists, revolutionaries.

FLANDERS: I mean, on the one hand, Justin is absolutely right. This
shouldn`t become a distraction, the fight over the right to the park. At
the same time, it illustrates exactly some of the issues the "Occupy"
movement is raising about what is the place of the public in a corporate-
run state?

And yet, you know, you ask where it goes next. This is way beyond the
park. And at the very same time as this was happening yesterday on the
West Coast, here in New York you had over 100 educators and advocates and
teachers and students taking over a board of ed meeting to raise issues
about austerity and education.

Today, there were marches going to the heart of the health care
private insurance system, coming from "Occupy Wall Street" to their
headquarters. And right now, you`re absolutely right. All across the
country are planned demonstrations, 9:00 p.m. Eastern in solidarity with
what happened in Oakland.

So this is way beyond the park in terms of physical issues. And it`s
way beyond the frustration that the president`s talking about. It`s about

If you haven`t seen the 8-year-old who talked yesterday at the board
of ed meeting, you have to watch it. The people`s mike gave her an ability
to speak the Mayor Mike has more or less shut down. It`s an amazing thing
that`s happening out there way beyond this discussion of policing.

SCHULTZ: It`s not going away. It`s not going away any time soon
until there`s change.

You know, we`ve seen this happen in this country, back in the `60s,
the civil rights. There is a parallel. The passions were very high. Dogs
and hoses were turned on Americans who were marching that just wanted to
vote, that wanted equality.

And there`s inequality in income in this country right now. And
people are frustrated for all the things I listed in the commentary
tonight. The fact of the matter is, when you have elected officials
saying, yes, I`m going to go back and get arrested, I`m going to keep going
back, that crowd is only going to grow.


SCHULTZ: That is only going to grow.

Laura Flanders, Justin Elliott, thanks for your time tonight. I
appreciate it so much.

Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the
screen and share your thoughts on Twitter @EdShow. I want to know what you

Mitt Romney has seen the light on Ohio`s issue number two. You won`t
believe what he said in Virginia today.

And later, Congressman Paul Ryan spoke at the Heritage Foundation
today and said President Obama is dividing the country with rhetoric. The
truth is, Ryan`s party has been doing that for years with policies.

We`re right back.


SCHULTZ: Well, here`s a shocker.

Remember the congressional supercommittee? The one that was set up
after the debt ceiling debate and charged with cutting the deficit? Well,
breaking news. They`re deadlocked. Big surprise, huh?

Committee Democrats proposed a plan to cut nearly $3 trillion, around
$400 billion of those dollars would come from reducing Medicare benefits.
It`s roughly the same plan that both President Obama and Speaker Boehner
had on the table as part of their grand bargain back in July. So, of
course, Republicans have rejected the proposal, calling it outrageously
absurd and a nonstarter.

They won`t go for it because the proposal includes -- you guessed it -
- tax increases on the wealthiest Americans. Once again, the Democrats are
willing to cut one of the big three, and once again, Republicans say no
because of new taxes. Sound familiar?

Coming up: The people responsible for dividing the country are now
accusing the president of the United States of engaging in class warfare.

Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: And we have breaking news. Mitt Romney has not changed his
position on Ohio`s issue number two, for nine hours. We will update you
when the events warrant.

Today, Romney talked to reporters in Virginia and stood strong for
issue two and Ohio Governor John Kasich.


ROMNEY: I`m sorry if I created any confusion in that regard. I fully
support Governor Kasich`s, I think it`s called question two, in Ohio.
Fully support that.

Actually on my Web site, I think back as early as April, I laid out
that I support question two and Governor Kasich`s effort to restrict
collective bargaining in Ohio in the ways he`s described. So, I fully
support that.

I`m 110 percent behind Governor Kasich and in support of that
question. Thank you.


SCHULTZ: Now, let`s put it in perspective. Keep in mind that guy
right there, he wants to be president of the United States. He just said
the words "fully support" three times.

Less than 24 hours earlier, Romney didn`t sound as strong when he was
actually in Ohio.


ROMNEY: I`m not speaking about the particular ballot issues. Those
are up to the people of Ohio, but I certainly support the effort of the
governor to rein in the scale of government. So I`m not terribly familiar
with the two ballot initiative but certainly supportive of the Republican
Party`s effort here.


SCHULTZ: Well, true conservatives have no idea where Mitt Romney
stands on any issue. Rick Perry pounced on Romney last night on FOX News.


banning guns and then all of a sudden you`re, you know, for the Second
Amendment. You can`t be for the issue of abortion then you`re pro-life --

BILL O`REILLY, FOX NEWS: So you think he`s a weasel?

PERRY: You can`t be on both sides of the issue.

O`REILLY: So, you think he`s a weasel? You think he doesn`t have any
credit --


SCHULTZ: Perry is exploiting Romney`s weakness with the base as much
as possible. His best move.

This Sunday, the Texas governor will have an entire hour on "FOX News
Sunday." Interesting. His ratings aren`t very high, but he gets a full
hour? Wonder who they`re rooting for.

Core conservatives have never trusted Mitt Romney. My next guest has
been called the godfather of the conservative movement in America. He
pioneered the direct mail tactic and built the conservative movement that
elected Reagan in 1980.

And this just in, I want you to know, as maybe a new viewer to 8:00, I
love to bring in all sides. It`s information-based. They`ll have their
say. I will have mine.

Let`s bring in Richard Viguerie, chairman of

Mr. Viguerie, good to have you with us tonight.

I have you on here tonight. I know I`m going to get a lot of liberal
heat for this. But I know where you stand and I know how important you are
in the conservative movement in this country.

Where is Mitt Romney? Does he have a chance to resurrect himself? I
don`t care what the poll numbers are because I know how conservatives feel
about this guy.

But I want to hear -- could you support Mitt Romney? Is his campaign

where he is. He`s at 25 percent. And he`s been that way for five years.
He hasn`t really moved all through the mid-20s.

And the reason he hasn`t moved, that`s about the percent of
Republicans that are not considered conservatives. You know, about 75
percent of Republicans are strongly right of center and Romney is left of

I`ve got a test, Ed, that I put these candidates to. Viguerie`s
foolproof test to determine whether you`re conservative or not. And Romney
fails it miserably. And it is -- personnel is policy. Tell me who you
walk with, I`ll tell you who you are.

Every time I saw Ronald Reagan in the 1970s, I saw six, seven, eight
of my friends -- Ed Meese, Lyn Nofzinger, Dick Allen, Marty Anderson, Judge
Clark, Paul Lackhoff (ph). They were all around him. So, it was naturally
when he moved into the White House, conservatives move in with him.

I challenge you to name one conservative, or anybody out there, name
one conservative right now around Romney or who has been around Romney the
last 15 years. Why should we think if he`s elected president that
conservatives would have any say in this administration?

SCHULTZ: So how do conservatives hold the line at this point? How do
you get your kind of candidate? Can Rick Perry make a comeback?

VIGUERIE: Absolutely. I think, you know, there are good candidates
running but I think at the end of the day, it could very well be a two-
person race between Rick Perry and Romney.

And remember, Ed, something is different about the Republican primary
process this year that hasn`t been true for about 40 years. And that is,
we`ll have proportionate representation of delegates until April 1st so
that, you know, McCain had won the nomination by March because he was
getting 30 percent, 35 percent of the vote. And the conservative vote was
divided among the remaining candidates. But because he was getting 30
percent, 35 percent, others were getting less, he got the nomination. That
won`t be the case this time.

SCHULTZ: So, is Perry your guy? I mean, is he the most conservative
candidate out there right now?

VIGUERIE: Oh, no, Michele Bachmann is a fine conservative. Rick
Perry. Herman Cain. There are good conservatives running out there.

And Perry is a -- I think he`s strong. I think at the end of the day,
because of his money, because of his 10 years as governor of Texas, he`s
conservative on most all the important issues. I think that it will be a
two-person race, although it could expand to a few others.

SCHULTZ: Now, the two people that we`re talking about are not leading
in the polls. It is Herman Cain.

Would you support Herman Cain? Would the conservative movement
support Herman Cain?

VIGUERIE: Absolutely. Absolutely. We`d be thrilled with Herman.

I know Herman. He`s a wonderful, you know, conservative. Absolutely.
We`d be thrilled to have Herman as our nominee.

But I think a lot of the other candidates have risen in the polls
because Perry has had a rough, you know, five or six weeks. If he gets his
act together and he begins to move out there with strong message for
conservatives, I think a lot of that support that has drifted over to the
other candidates will come back to Perry.

SCHULTZ: But for core conservatives, it is not Mitt Romney, which --

VIGUERIE: Not now, not ever.

SCHULTZ: Not now, not ever. What if he`s the nominee?

VIGUERIE: Then we`ll have to see how he comes to concert. Is he
going to assure us he`s going to govern as a principled conservative? Will
he select a conservative as his vice president? Will he assure us he`s
going to bring mostly conservatives into his administration? Is he going
to give us solid principled conservative judges?

SCHULTZ: But he flips around, too. I mean, the story that we just
had a moment ago from Ohio. I mean, the guy`s all over the place.

VIGUERIE: Oh, absolutely. It`s an interesting thing about the
Republican Party. Since Richard Nixon to now, the Republican Party, with
the exception of Ronald Reagan, has nominated somebody at the left end of
the party, whether it was Nixon or Ford or George Bush 41, 43 --

SCHULTZ: Those days over?

VIGUERIE: -- Bob Dole, John McCain. They`re, you know, not in sync
with the base of the party, and that`s a prescription for disaster. Quite

SCHULTZ: All right. Mr. Viguerie, thanks for joining us tonight.

I appreciate your take on it all.

If you think Mitt Romney is acting slippery on issue two, wait until
you see how FOX News is spinning it. Dick Morris dips into the zone
tonight with his big toe.

And later, the Justice Department says a Texas redistricting plan
would limit the voting power of Hispanic residents in the state of Texas.
It`s the same plan signed by Governor Rick Perry.

We`re right back.


SCHULTZ: And in "Psycho Talk" tonight, Bill Clinton backstabber Dick
Morris, the disgraced former Clinton campaign manager joined the kids on
the curvy couch over at FOX News this morning to talk about Ohio`s issue
number two.

Steve Doocy asked Morris about the upcoming Ohio vote.


STEVE DOOCY, FOX NEWS: Dick, what do you think of SB-5 as it`s known
in Ohio?

I want to point out flying 22 hours from Hong Kong to New York is a
nightmare, not a dream.

DOOCY: Nonetheless.

MORRIS: I think that this is a terribly important issue. A week from
this coming Tuesday, two weeks from yesterday, there will be an issue on
the ballot in the state of Ohio to repeal what`s called Senate Bill 5,
which is one of the most important and positive pieces of legislation to
emerge in any state this year.


SCHULTZ: Pretty disgusting to watch four highly paid FOX News
personalities just yuck it up over an expensive overseas flight and praise
issue two in the same breath.

Dick Morris has no idea what working class firefighters, police
officers and teachers are facing with this vote.

Dick Morris has never rushed into a burning building to save lives.
Morris has never met the heroes of the Ohio police force or the great
teachers of the Buckeye State.

Morris has a nice, cushy job putting on makeup and sticking his foot
in his mouth on national TV.

For Dick Morris to call issue two the most positive laws in America is
sleazy "Psycho Talk."

Paul Ryan is leading the attack against President Obama`s message on
jobs. He says it`s class warfare. He should be attacking his own party.

Joe the Plumber says Congress has been doing bad things to us for some
50 years and he`s angry. Well, I`m angry, too. Let`s see if we can get
angry together. See if we can come up with a jobs plan. He`ll join me on
the set.

Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.

Republican Congressman Paul Ryan is attacking President Obama for
engaging in what he calls the politics of division.


RYAN: Instead of appealing to the hope and optimism that were the
hallmarks to his first campaign, he has launched his second campaign by
preying on the emotions of fear, envy and resentment. This has the
potential to be just as damaging as his misguided policies. Sowing social
unrest and class resentment makes America weaker, not stronger.


SCHULTZ: Ryan targeted President Obama`s jobs tour as a propaganda
campaign, saying it misleads the American people to insight hatred toward
the rich?


RYAN: He`s going from town to town, impugning the motives of
Republicans, setting up straw men and scapegoats, and engaging in
intellectually lazy arguments as he tries to build support for punitive tax
hikes on job creators.


SCHULTZ: Paul Ryan says President Obama`s words are dividing the
country. False. Absolutely false.

The economic reality created by Republicans and endorsed by Paul Ryan
has divided this country and will continue to do so.

If you don`t believe me, look at the findings of the Congressional
Budget Office, the independent research agency within the Congress. You
see five brackets there, folks, covering income growth for 99 percent of
Americans over the past three decades.

And then the one on the right, there`s the income growth for the top 1
percent. You be the judge. Fact: wealthy Americans are paying less and
getting more. The country is divided by a wealth gap of nearly 300

Paul Ryan needs to stop blaming the president for pointing out the
facts. That`s exactly what he`s doing on the road.

And I want to say one thing about Democrats tonight. Where the hell
are you? You got an opposing congressman there who has put forward a bill
that wants to privatize Medicare and Medicaid, comes out and attacks the
president falsely and I don`t see any Democrats in the Congress step it up
correcting the record or going to bat for President Obama.

We`re here. MSNBC. THE ED SHOW every night, Monday through Friday,
8:00. Give him some backup, will you?

I mean, it`s outrageous what that guy just said. He is inciting civil
war. That`s what he`s doing.

You take his comments and you dissect him and see exactly what they
mean. It`s almost as if the Republicans want violence to take place in our
society. And the Democrats just sit there and let President Obama take it.

Where`s the communication team of the Democrats? Why aren`t you out
on the talking heads on talk radio across America with editorial boards, on
talking head shows on cable saying, you know what, this is wrong.

Where`s the force? Where`s the passion? Where`s the fight for the

Does President Obama have to do everything?

Let`s turn to Steven Rattner, former auto adviser in the Treasury
Department under President Obama and author of the book, "Overhaul: An
Insider`s account of the Obama administration`s emergency rescue of the
auto industry." I want to read that.

And former Congressman Alan Grayson, who is running for Congress who
speaks his mind and quite well, I might add.

Great to have both of you with us tonight.

Congressman, I want to ask you first, is President Obama inciting
hatred towards the rich in this country when he points out the income gap?

Ryan or any Republican to talk about this, to talk about the president
inciting the politics of division, is much like O.J. saying he`s going to
devote his life to finding the real killer.

They`re the real killers. They`re the ones who`ve devoted their lives
to a politics division in this country.

For my entire adult life, going all the way back to Nixon`s Southern
Strategy, they`ve pitted white against black, north against south, straight
against gays, and now, they`re blaming the president for this? Give me a

SCHULTZ: Steven, you`d like to show this graph. It shows taxes on
the richest Americans of the past 20 years. Why are Republicans still
saying the wealthy Americans are overtaxed when clearly they are not?

Buffett has made this point that he pays a lower tax rate than his
secretary. These are facts. That data on that chart you just showed comes
from the IRS.

The fact is a series of tax reductions, some of which occurred under
Clinton, to be fair, many occurred under President Bush, have lowered the
tax rate on the wealthiest Americans from 29 percent down to 17 percent.
That`s just a fact.

SCHULTZ: Senate candidate Elizabeth Warren in Massachusetts has said
the opposite of what Paul Ryan is saying. Here it is.


country who got rich on his own. Nobody.

You built a factory out there -- good for you. But I want to be
clear: you moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for.


SCHULTZ: Ryan responded to that quote from Warren today.


RYAN: This is what I call a fatal conceit of progressivism. It`s
upside-down. It`s the presumption that money and wealth made and created
in America is the government`s unless they benevolently expend it back to


SCHULTZ: Congressman, why does Paul Ryan -- what does he not get
about what Elizabeth Warren is saying?

GRAYSON: He doesn`t get at all. He doesn`t get any part of it.

For the past 30 years, this country has seen since Reagan and onward a
tremendous growth in the wealth of the wealthy and the poverty of the poor.
The rich have been getting richer. The poor have been getting poorer.
That`s just the way it`s been for the past 30 years.

The choices really at this point: are we going to do something about
it or are we going to try to just ignore it and let the middle class sink
into poverty and see it destroyed? That`s really where we are at this
point in this country. That`s the choice.

The choice essentially is between class warfare and class surrender.
And I`ve never been in favor of surrender.

SCHULTZ: Mr. Rattner, the White House says they`re not going to
change the message. What do you make of that?

RATTNER: I think the president is right to point these things out. I
don`t view it as class warfare. I think the fact the top 1 percent in this
country now have the same share of income it had back in 1928 at the height
of the Gilded Age. And I think the president is right to point that out
and right to continue to carry his message across the country.

SCHULTZ: Steven Rattner, Alan Grayson, great to have both of you with
us tonight. Thank you.

RATTNER: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: A redistricting plan in Texas would limit the voting power
of Hispanics, and Republicans planned it that way. Texas Democratic
Congressman Henry Cuellar joins me next.


SCHULTZ: The Republicans continue their war on voters across the
country. We`ll detail the dirty tricks on Texas voters. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: In the "Playbook" tonight: the Justice Department said Texas
Republicans are intentionally limiting the voting power of Hispanics with a
new redistricting map.

Governor Rick Perry signed the redistricting map and he may want to
pay closer attention to what he`s approving now that`s he`s running for
president. Justice Department lawyers said there was "ample circumstantial
evidence of an intent to limit the voting power of Hispanics in violation
of the Voting Rights Act."

The redistricting plan would affect nearly half a million Hispanics in
the state of Texas.

Justice Department lawyers and Republican Congressman Lamar Smith and
others clearly considered race in their deliberations. According to e-
mails, they knew the Justice Department would not pre-approve the plan so
they didn`t submit it.

A review in federal court is scheduled for next week.

Joining me now is Congressman Henry Cuellar of Texas.

Congressman, good to have you with us tonight.

REP. HENRY CUELLAR (D), TEXAS: Thank you so much.

SCHULTZ: Is this redistricting map as bad as it sounds?

CUELLAR: Well, let`s look at it this way. In the last 10 years,
Texas had a new growth of 4.3 million individuals. When you put that in
numbers of new congressional seats, that gave us four new congressional

So when you look at the total growth that we had, 70 percent of that
growth in the last 10 years were Hispanics. When you put African-Americans
and other minorities, it adds up to 90 percent.

So when 90 percent of the whole growth were minorities, but only the
10 percent get the congressional districts, we know there`s something
wrong. I think that what the Republican colleagues did, they overreached
and were hoping that the courts will find what we call a section two
violation and create more Hispanic minority seats in the state of Texas.

SCHULTZ: So, Governor Perry has signed on to this. How big a problem
is that?

CUELLAR: Well, you know, the state legislature passed this. Governor
signed this. And now, you know, instead of going through the Department of
Justice like we`ve been doing for years and years, they decided to go
around and go into the Washington court.

Again, they didn`t have a problem when Bush was the president there,
but certainly now, because you have President Obama, they decide to
circumvent the Department of Justice which they have a right to do that, it
just hasn`t been done this way and they`re trying to go with the Washington
panel up there in Washington, D.C.

SCHULTZ: With your office, Congressman, what has been the response of
the Hispanic community in Texas on this?

CUELLAR: You know, one of the things, you know, people feel a little
frustrated. For example, let`s look at the Dallas-Ft. Worth area. They
have about 1.3 million Hispanics but not yet a Hispanic district. I mean,
how can you not have in an area like the Dallas-Ft. Worth area, a Hispanic
district, why not in south Texas, why not the Houston area?

You know, the only way they created a Hispanic district is they went
after a Democrat, eliminated that Democratic seat. Then they went ahead
and created another Hispanic seat. That`s the only we they gave us a
Hispanic seat going after another Democrat.

SCHULTZ: All right. Congressman Cuellar. Appreciate your time
tonight. Thanks so much.

CUELLAR: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: This story will continue.

Joe the Plumber is running for office and he`s here on THE ED SHOW set
to talk about jobs. I like that. The guy`s going to run for Congress.
He`s getting in fight, too. I like that.

Stay with us. We`ll be right back.


SCHULTZ: Survey tonight. I asked you, has the 99 percent movement
reached a turning point? Eighty-three percent of you said yes, 17 percent
of you said no.

Coming up, Joe the Plumber wants to be Joe the congressman from Ohio.
I`ll ask him about his plans on jobs, taxes and more.

Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: And finally tonight, Samuel Joe Wurzelbacher, better known
as Joe the Plumber, is running for Congress in Ohio as a Republican.

Here`s part of what he said today when he announce his candidacy.


JOE WURZELBACHER, JOE THE PLUMBER: But if we work together, we can
help businesses come in here to create jobs, by having competitive tax
rates and having a simple regulatory simple.

If I`m coming off as angry, it`s because I am. I won`t hide it. I`m
pretty blunt about it.

I just can`t stand it when people do bad work. We`ve been voting the
last 40 or 50 years bad people to do bad things to us.


SCHULTZ: I`m angry, too, as most of America knows. How about what
happened to wage earners over the last few decades? We angry about that?

The income of the top 1 percent has grown by 275 percent, but wages
have pretty much flat-lined -- the working folk of America. Redistribution
of wealth is a reality in this country. It`s going from the bottom to the

Joining me now, Samuel Joe Wurzelbacher.

Joe, good to have you with us.

WURZELBACHER: Thanks, Mr. Schultz.

SCHULTZ: Ed`s fine.

You just saw that graph. You saw that statistic. You`re in Congress.
What would be your remedy for that?

I mean, you`re a plumber. You`re down there at the blue line down
there. You`re the working folk of America. This is the income inequity.

What`s the solution?

WURZELBACHER: Changing the tax code, which brings me to the point,
is, why don`t the Democrats ever put -- talk about changing the 67,500
pages and growing current tax structure we have in place? Why don`t they
ever talk about changing that and leveling the playing field? Warren
Buffett talks, well, you know, I pay less taxes than why secretary. That`s
because his accountants make sure he pays less taxes than his secretary.

SCHULTZ: So, you would want to simplify the tax code?

WURZELBACHER: That`s what it comes down to. Keep it simple, stupid.
That`s the secret to life.

SCHULTZ: OK. But the tax cuts have gone to the wealthiest Americans
and it hasn`t led to job creation.

WURZELBACHER: They keep paying for it with the lobbyists and the
special interests. You know, it`s not a secret, but, you know, when you
sit there and say it`s the Republicans doing it and not the Democrats,
that`s where you`re doing a disservice to the American people, because the
Democrats are getting their money from the very same people. You know,
they have the same fund-raisers -- you know, they`re both, you know,
essentially it seems like they`re in collusion.

SCHULTZ: So, you`re mad at the system. You don`t like the way the
whole thing is set up.

WURZELBACHER: God, no, man. We got to get in there and get some
honesty and integrity in there, brother.

SCHULTZ: What do you say to working people of America who had
stagnant wages over 30 years?

WURZELBACHER: Get involved in your sieve irresponsibility is what it
comes down to. People aren`t going to give it to you. You notice, the top
1 percent as you like to call it, keep taking. They`re in the position to

You know what? We have the system in place for a reason. We the
American people can take it over, just got to get through all the B.S. that
is the political system right now.

SCHULTZ: You think there`s been corporate greed in America?



WURZELBACHER: That`s human nature.

SCHULTZ: But you`re running as a Republican.


SCHULTZ: They protect corporations and they protect the wealthy.

WURZELBACHER: So do the Democrats. I mean, you can`t have it both

SCHULTZ: Wait a minute. We have the jobs plan out there, the
Republicans won`t even raises taxes on 0.2 percent of Americans out there,
the 400,000 jobs that would have been created.

WURZELBACHER: Ed, there, it`s --

SCHULTZ: How would you have voted on that if you were in Congress?

WURZELBACHER: The jobs bill?



SCHULTZ: Why would you vote no on that?

WURZELBACHER: It`s not fixing the problem. Like I said earlier, it`s
putting duct tape on an issue.

Let`s really fix the problem. Let`s look at the tax structure first.
You know, what I said earlier when I was making my announcement,
competitive tax rate, you know, a simple regulatory system. These are
simple things.

The reason you put a simple regulatory system is you want to keep the
businesses you started in that state or in the country.

SCHULTZ: What`s a fair tax for the people at the top 1 percent that
have seen their income go up 300 percent over the last three decades? I
mean, they`re living wealthier than they ever have. Are they taxed enough?

WURZELBACHER: Are they taxed enough? It comes back to changing the
tax structure. That`s what it comes back to.

SCHULTZ: What would it be? It used to be at 39 percent. Now it`s at
35.5 percent, 36 percent.

WURZELBACHER: You`re not going to throw the 1955 statistic --

SCHULTZ: No, no, no, I`m not going to do that. In the Clinton years,
it was 39 percent. The Bush tax cuts came in in 2001 and 2003 which led to

What is a fair tax rate in your opinion for the wealthiest Americans?

WURZELBACHER: I think it needs to be across the board. I like the
flat tax, I like the fair tax. I like anything that gets rid of the
current income tax system.

SCHULTZ: OK. So, you`re a flat taxer.

WURZELBACHER: I`m about getting it out of the way and getting
business back to this country. You know, the heavy regulation imposed by
one of the parties, the free trade agreement imposed by another party that
hurt Americans and hurts American jobs and send them overseas. We got to
work on that.

Both parties are hurting this country, Ed.

SCHULTZ: Well, the Democrats have made mistakes. But I think for the
most part they`re pretty much on point.

I got to ask you this.


SCHULTZ: How are you going to vote on issue two in Ohio?



WURZELBACHER: Personally. You know, I haven`t made a decision on
that to be honest with you.

SCHULTZ: Are you for collective bargaining.

WURZELBACHER: I don`t like collective bargaining because I want the
taxpayer to be represented at the table. Now, you know, don`t strip me off
there. I mean, the taxpayer has to be represented at the table. Not big
on collective bargaining. But at the same time, you got 40 or 50 years of
bad decisions made by Republicans and Democrats and they want --

SCHULTZ: I got to run. Joe, good to have you. We`ll get you back on
the program.

That`s THE ED SHOW. I`m Ed Schultz.

Time now for "THE RACHEL MADDOW." Rachel, great to have you always
right after this program.


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