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PoliticsNation, Monday, October 14th, 2013

Read the transcript from the Monday show

October 14, 2013
Guest: Cynthia Tucker, James Peterson, Krystal Ball, Frank Schaeffer,
Barbara Boxer; Emanuel Cleaver

AL SHARPTON, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, Ed. And thanks to you for tuning
in. We begin tonight with some disturbing images, a Confederate flag waved
at the Tea Party Rally outside the White House gate. A Tea Party activist
was also there saying President Obama "Bows down to Allah." And look,
Sarah Palin was there, too. She questioned the President`s fitness to
leave this country.

I`ll have lot to say about this ugliness that we are seeing on the far
right of the GOP. We must address this fringe that is infecting the GOP.

But we start with breaking news. Getting close to a deal. Right now
senators from both parties are reportedly finalizing a deal to end the
government shutdown and avoid a default. It would give the president much
of what he wants. The Republicans are said to be giving in on key parts of
their demands as they continue to feel the heat in the polls.

A new "Washington Post" poll shows more and more Americans disapprove of
how the GOP has handled this crisis. In the first week of the shutdown, 63
percent disapproved of the GOP . In week two, that went up to 70 percent.
And now at the start of week three, it`s 74 percent. Three-quarters of
Americans don`t like what Republicans are doing, and that`s why Senate
Republicans have now stepped up to the bargaining table.

Earlier today, President Obama went to a food pantry where furloughed
workers have been volunteering during the shutdown. He said it`s time for
Republicans to end this crisis.


today. It doesn`t mean the differences between Democrats and Republicans
go away. That`s what elections are for. But between elections we`re
governing and not supposed to be hurting the very people who sent us to
represent them.


SHARPTON: The president also said the American people are also tired of
Republicans putting the economy at risk for political gain.


OBAMA: This problem is we`ve seen this brinksmanship as a strategy time
and time again to try to extract extreme or partisan concessions. And I
think the American people have made very clear that`s not how we expect
Washington to do business. We don`t need to inflict pain on the American
people or risk the possibility that America`s full faith and credit is
damaged just because one side is not getting its way.


SHARPTON: Republicans didn`t get their way, so they threw a tantrum. And
they country suffered. Now we`re close to a deal to end all that.
Republicans need to finally stand up to the extremists within their own
party and do the right thing for the American people.

Joining me now is Senator Barbara Boxer, Democrat from California. Thanks
for joining me.

SEN. BARBARA BOXER (D), CALIFORNIA: Thank you, reverend.

SHARPTON: Senator, what can you tell us about this deal so far. Are you
confident it will happen?

BOXER: Well, am very hopeful it will happen. I don`t like to say it`s
done until it is done. It doesn`t look like we`re voting on anything
tonight which I wanted to do, because we`re getting very close to that
magic moment of default. But there`s still conversations going back and

But Reverend Al, I think when you talked about the polls, I`ve said this
from the start, the only way we get the Republicans to the table is if the
national polls showed they were way out of step with the American people.
Thank goodness the American people are weighing in. And I want to say they
have to continue to weigh in.

This is not over. We`re in the 14th day of a shutdown. We`ve got hundreds
of thousands of federal workers who don`t know what they`re going to do
when they don`t get paid. We`ve got more than a million, more than two
million folks who work for the private sector who are contractors of the
federal government. And they`re starting to feel it and communities all
over. We`re not done, but we`re definitely making progress and I know the
parameters of the deal, and I certainly feel that it`s a good deal if we
can get it done for both parties. I do.

SHARPTON: Now, we`re getting some emerging details, Senator, about the
deal. It says it would open the federal government, raise the debt
ceiling, start long-term budget talks. Token concessions on Obamacare.

Now, should Democrats worry about this quote, "token concessions to the
Republicans on Obamacare." Things like income verification for the
subsidy. Should we be concerned about that? The Democrats.

BOXER: I really don`t think we have to worry, but we have to read the fine
print, you know. We`re fine with income verification. Right now you have
to verify it yourself, but if we want to check and balance on that, that`s
not a problem. It depends how it`s written. And I`m very confident that
Senator Reid would not allow something to come before us that really
undermines people being able to qualify to get the government contribution.

So I`m not worried about that. The devil will be reading the details and
we can do that. I`m just more worried about this thing not coming before
us tonight. And we know that Speaker Boehner has to take it to his folks.
And you never know what`s going to happen over there.

I would just hope and I said this on your show before, that we ought to
look at Speaker Tip O`Neil, when he wanted to get something done that was
tough and it was tough for his own party, the magic was 218. That`s the
number. He didn`t worry where it came from. And if Speaker Boehner would
just take a page out of that book and just say I`m speaker of the House,
not speaker of the Republican Party. We can get this done.

Reverend, we could have gotten this done a long time ago. And all the pain
and suffering and kids getting hurt and the rest, we wouldn`t have had to
go through it.

SHARPTON: Will we get this done in your estimation before Thursday when
the debt ceiling deadline is?

BOXER: Well, I`m going to give you my -- I believe 75/25 we will.

SHARPTON: All right, so you think 75/25 we may be able to get it done.


SHARPTON: You know, it`s interesting. Even Senator Corker now is
admitting that it`s the GOP . Now we`ll see whether we get a deal out of
the Senate and whether Mr. Boehner will give us a vote on the Senate deal
straight up in the House and we move on a relieve some of the pain that has
been unnecessarily caused.

BOXER: That`s right. And this can`t happen again, Reverend. This is too
great a country to have a Congress play with the American people like this.
It`s just wrong on both fronts. The default and the shutdown. Never
again. Enough.

SHARPTON: Senator Barbara Boxer, thank you very much.

BOXER: OK. Thanks, Reverend.

SHARPTON: Now I want to bring in Joan Walsh from Thanks for
joining me.


SHARPTON: I want to play something that GOP Senator Rand Paul said this
weekend about Republicans getting blamed f this mess. Listen to this.


SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: I think our demise is a little bit
overstated. I would say that both parties are going to catch a lot of
blame on this. I think that Democrats and Republicans are going to catch
blame. So, I don`t want to be here. I don`t see this as winning or
losing. This is a lose/lose situation.


SHARPTON: I mean, Joan, do some Republicans honestly think they`re not
getting blamed for the shutdown?

WALSH: OK, can we all remember this was the guy caught on the open hot mic
with Mitch McConnell saying we`re winning this thing. We got the right

He obviously cares about -- very smart. He obviously cares about winning
and he has no know that they`re losing. I mean, it`s possible they don`t
know they`re losing. You know, when you hang out with a bunch of neo-
confederates on the mall who carry confederate flags to the home of our
first African-American president, maybe you do live in a bubble that is
different from ours. But how many polls does it going to take them,
Reverend Al? You showed three. Gallup confirmed the same thing. Every
poll that has been taken shows that they are plummeting in the nation`s
esteem. And Democrats are doing great. The Democrats are OK and the
president`s fine.

SHARPTON: But how outrageous, and I want to deal with this more later in
the show, how outrageous is this tea party kind of rally and things where
you have these ugly symbols that are not only racist, but they are un-
American. This confederate flag represents the breakdown of this country
killing of thousands of people over race and slavery and breaking the union
of this country. How could any elected official identify with that and
call himself a patriot?

WALSH: Well, I haven`t seen anybody identify specifically with the flag --

SHARPTON: They were at the rally.

WALSH: They were.

SHARPTON: And did not denounce the flag.

WALSH: I was being told yesterday, we`re going to find out this is a
liberal plant. The guy`s been identified. He`s got a facebook page. He
is what he purports to be. So, you know, the idea that it was going to
turn out it wasn`t true, that`s faded away for them. I`m waiting for
somebody to stand up and somebody elected to stand up and say we don`t want
this at our rallies.

SHARPTON: Well, we`re waiting to see if that happens. It hasn`t happened
since the rally and since this person has been identified.


SHARPTON: Now, "the Washington Post" poll says the gap between disapproval
of approval of government shutdown talks. You`re talking about who gets
the blame here. President Obama, 11 points under water. Democrats 28
points under water. Republicans, 53 points under water. What is Rand Paul
talking about? I mean, 53 points. It`s clear who the American people
mostly blame.

WALSH: That`s why his colleague from Kentucky, Mitch McConnell, scared
over and now very much wants to make a deal with Harry Reid. And we will
see what the deal is. There is a part of me that`s still worried. There
is part of me, you know, I think this deal is predicated on these guys are
reading the polls and they are seeing that this -- what a nightmare this is
for the Republican Party and they will never do it again. But I worry that
any kind of concession around the Affordable Care Act seems as tiny as they
may be seems to validate their strategy. And they don`t need much to
validate their strategy. But there are smarter people than me saying this
is a good deal. So we`ll see what happens.

SHARPTON: Let me throw this at you. A GOP lawmaker compared the
Republicans trying to defund Obamacare. Listen to this -- to the founding
fathers. Representative Morgan Griffith says this group of renegades that
decided that they wanted to break from the crown in 1776 did great damage
to the economy of the colonies. They created the greatest nation and best
form of government, but they did damage to the economy in the short run.
What are these people talking about?

WALSH: They`re delusional. They are delusional that their cause is the
same as the founders` cause. It`s crazy. But that is a sign that some of
them are willing -- some of them deny. We have our default deniers, right?
But some of them are like, yes, it`s going to be very, very bad, but the
founders cause damage to the economy. They`re delusional. They live in a
separate world. And it`s a world that`s dangerous to us.

SHARPTON: Joan Walsh, thank you for your time tonight.

WALSH: Thanks, Rev.

SHARPTON: Coming up, Obama derangement, more on the tea party rallies with
confederate flags and talk of impeachment. Why it`s always been personal
with this president.

Plus Sarah Palin is back leading the hate-filled rally. What could
possibly go wrong for the GOP?

And caught on tape, Philadelphia police stop and frisk two men. The latest
on the investigation.

Also friend or foe I want to know. "Reply Al" is ahead.


SHARPTON: Have you joined the "Politics Nation" conversation on facebook
yet? We hope you will. Today, our facebook family was supporting
President Obama`s visit to a D.C. food kitchen.

Gregory says proud to have a president who is genuinely concerned about
U.S. citizens.

Laura says I`m right with you, Mr. President. Please don`t back down.

And Nate says while Obama visits food pantries, the Republicans are running
around with people carrying confederate flags spewing hate. What a

Nate`s right. That did happen this weekend, and we`ve got more on the
confederate flag coming up later. But first, we want you to know what --
we want to know what you think about the shutdown. Please head over to
facebook and search "Politics Nation" and like us to join the conversation
that keeps going long after the show ends.


SHARPTON: We`re back with more breaking news.

The Senate has adjourned for the evening, but majority leader Harry Reid
says he and Senator McConnell have made progress towards a deal. They just
are not there yet. So the Senate is ready to strike a deal. But what
about the House?

Speaker John Boehner faces a stark choice. Will he stand up to the
extremists in his own party who forced this government shutdown? In
earlier battles, Speaker Boehner did that by turning to Democrats for votes
to pass tea bill. He did it with the fiscal cliff and with hurricane Sandy
relief. And again with the violence against women act. That`s about to
end now or continue with what he does about ending the government shutdown
and avoiding default. With the deadline fast approaching, will he let the
Democrats rescue him once again?

Joining me now is Congressman Emanuel Cleaver, Democrat from Missouri.
Thanks for being here tonight, Congressman.

REP. EMANUEL CLEAVER (D), MISSOURI: Good to be with you, Reverend.

SHARPTON: Congressman, where does this end? Will Boehner, in your
opinion, stand up to the tea party or will he need the Democrats to bail
him out again?

CLEAVER: Well, it looks like the senators are slow walking us towards a
deal. I don`t know where it`s going, but at least we`re on the way. The
big problem I think is not in the Senate. I think they will actually come
up with a deal and hopefully tomorrow. The problem is going to be over in
the house as you said. And the question is whether or not John Boehner
will speak to Nancy Pelosi and say, look, OK. Can you bring over a certain
number of votes, because I can bring over 30 or 40 -- hopefully it`s that
high and let`s get the deal done.

And the only person on planet earth who can make that decision is John
Boehner. Nobody else. And hopefully the people from Wall Street have
impressed him how dangerous this is. And he will be ready to make a deal
that might cause him to lose his job.
SHARPTON: Now, I want to hold you right there, because Senator Lindsey
Graham spoke this weekend about his concerns about the deal. Listen to
what he said that parallels what you just said. Listen to this.


SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: Here`s what I`m worried about a
deal coming out of the Senate that a majority of Republicans can`t vote for
in the house. That really does compromise Speaker Boehner`s leadership.
And after all this mess is over with, do we want to compromise John Boehner
as leader of the House? I don`t think so.


SHARPTON: He seems to be worried about John Boehner`s job and compromising
Boehner saying Republicans may not go there, meaning Boehner would have to
depend on Democrats like you to come in with the vote, but it could cost
him his job as speaker.

CLEAVER: Well, I like John Boehner. I think he`s a good guy. But at some
point, the decision has to be what`s in the best interest of the United
States of America? I`m very concerned that the markets are going to show
some downward fall. And I think that John Boehner are going to see that.
And I hope he says to his conference here`s the gavel. We need to end
this. And if you don`t like what we are doing, you can choose another
speaker. He`d go down in history in a positive way if he did that in a
very positive way.

No one knows right now, but it is up to him. The Senate is going to come
up with something. I don`t have any question in my mind that they will.
And then the pressure is going to have to mount on the speaker to bring it
to the floor. If it comes to the floor, it`s going to pass.

SHARPTON: Now, Congressman, will the low polls, the fact that they are
sinking so low in the polls, will that break all this enthusiasm with the
tea party and this loyalty by the moderate Republican leadership? Will
these polls break this tea party spell on the Republican Party?

CLEAVER: I don`t think so. Because I was in a conversation with one of
the tea party members who said that it didn`t matter what the polls said,
that his particular congressional district wanted him to stand strong and
push back against Obamacare.

Now, what I think it will do -- what I think the polls -- I think they`ve
already done this, caused the people who are clear thinking and who are
moderate to say, OK, I`m not going down with this ship. And I`m certainly
not going to be accused of taking my country down economically. And so, I
think it will bring over number of them that it will give us a healthy
vote. I think it will be significantly higher than 118 votes and I think
they will be Republican moderates.

SHARPTON: All right. Congressman Cleaver, thank you for your time

CLEAVER: Good to be with you.

SHARPTON: Ahead, disrespect for President Obama. Sarah Palin and Ted Cruz
lead a hate-filled rally with confederate flags and impeachment talk.

And those other Republican stars spent the weekend on stage with Glenn
Beck. How`s that rebranding going?


SHARPTON: Sarah Palin fuels a hate-filled anti-Obama rally. There were
calls for the president to put the Koran down. And sitting members of
Congress calling for impeachment. And this, a confederate flag outside the
White House. What`s really behind the disrespect and hate? That`s next.


SHARPTON: It is an image the reveals deep wounds of our nation`s past. A
symbol of confederate government that fought to keep slavery the law of the
land. This weekend it flew outside the White House where the first family
lives. A right wing protester waving the confederate flag in front of the
home of the nation`s first black president. It was one man with one flag,
but thousands of tea partiers marched alongside in a rally that started at
the World War II memorial.

And who led this anti-Obama rally? Senator Ted Cruz. Yes. A sitting U.S.
senator fueling a protest with disturbing undertones. And proudly standing
there as well, Sarah Palin.


though, and you see these barricades and you have to ask yourself is this
any way that a commander in chief would show his respect, his gratitude to
our military. We will not be timid in calling out any who abuse would use
our military, our vets as ponds in the political gain.


SHARPTON: Show respect? She says this while marching alongside of
confederate flag? And Palin was just the one of act for this guy.


LARRY KLAYMAN, FREEDOM WATCH: We are now ruled, quote-unquote, by a
president who bows down to Allah. This president is not a president of we
the people. He`s the president of his people. Demand that this president
leave town, to get out. To put the Koran down, to get up off his knees,
and to figuratively come up with his hands out.


SHARPTON: Come up with his hands out, put the Koran down, a president of
his people not we the people. This is the ugliness we`ve seen against this
president from day one. It`s a mentality that sees D.C. police as an
invasion of foreign forces.

PROTESTER 1: Hey, doesn`t it look like something we`ve seen in the past?

PROTESTER 2: Looks like something out of Kenya.


SHARPTON: The hatred from the right is constant. Trying to paint our
president as different, as the other.

Joining me now are Cynthia Tucker and James Peterson. Thank you both for
being here.



SHARPTON: Cynthia, let`s put this up again. The confederate flag outside
the White House at a rally with Republican senators. How did the
Republican Party get here?

TUCKER: Well, Reverend Al, I for one -- I know this is going to sound a
little perverse, but I for one, am glad to see all this out in the open.
Because for five years now, I and you and a few others have been talking
about the clear racism aimed at President Obama. Is it coming from all
Republicans? Absolutely not. This is not an indication that all
Republicans are racist. But that group of ultraconservatives, the Tea
Partiers, they`re absolutely steeped in racism. I saw it in 2009, when the
Tea Party first started rallying in Washington, with their ugly signs with
President Obama as a witch doctor, as a monkey.

But then the many people didn`t want to acknowledge it. There were many
members of the mainstream media who didn`t want to discuss racism. But now
that it`s out there so openly, we all have to acknowledge that the Tea
Party is steeped in racism. This is a group of people who doesn`t want to
be in an America led by a black president.


SHARPTON: When you look at the fact that Sarah Palin accused the president
of flirting with an impeachable offense on the debt limit, James Peterson,
her quote, "Any attempt by President Obama to unilaterally raise the debt
limit without Congress is also an impeachable offense." And a Republican
lawmaker is also hinting at impeachment over the debt ceiling. Watch GOP
Congressman Louie Gohmert.


UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Will you vote for any deal to -- any bill that would
increase the debt ceiling?

REP. LOUIE GOHMERT (R), TEXAS: It just depends on what it is.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Depends on what it is.


UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Would you allow us to default on our debt?

GOHMERT: No. That would be an impeachable defense by the president.


SHARPTON: So, James, we`ve got on one hand the outright racist ugliness.
On another hand, the president is not a legitimate president, then he wins
decisively. Now we`re going to impeach him.

PETERSON: Right. These threads all go together. And as Cynthia pointed
out, Rev, you and others on this network have been sort of following these
things. Sometimes people ask us why we pay attention to the fringe, Rev.
That`s because the fringe is controlling the Republican Party. And just so
people understand the confederate flag is a symbol that to me, to my
friends, to my family, and to millions of African-Americans reflects
violence, systematic rape, unpaid labor, white supremacy and issues or
races and for hundreds of years in this nation.

So it is a deeply offensive symbol for many, many Americans. And so, to
see it there and to not have representatives in the House or in the Senate
speak out against that kind of hatred and violence to me is absolutely
awful. But the reason why we have to pay attention to this fringe Rev is
because these folk are connected to representatives in the Congress who are
actually controlling our government right now. And so it`s very important
that we understand it and unveil it for what it is. It is hatred.

SHARPTON: You know, also we`ve seen from early in this, Cynthia, a
constant questioning of the President`s birthplace. Watch this.


DONALD TRUMP, ENTREPRENEUR: All we want to do is see this guy`s birth

REP. CLIFF STEARNS (R), FLORIDA: All I can tell you is that the general
consensus is that he has produced a birth certificate. The question is, is
it legitimate?

REP. VICKY HARTZLER (R), MISSOURI: I mean, if someone asked for my birth
certificate, I`d get out my baby book and hand it out and say, here it is.

PALIN: All the president has to do is show it.

TRUMP: Perhaps it`s going to say Hawaii. Perhaps it`s going to say Kenya.


SHARPTON: I mean, the constant questioning of his birthplace, Cynthia.
Then you hear on the tape some of the marchers saying the D.C. cops may
have come out of Kenya. I mean, this is blatant stuff that we`ve been
talking about that has now come out to the open sunlight.

TUCKER: Everybody can see it. Everybody can see it as you`ve been saying.
You know, there is a small group of white Americans who simply cannot
believe that their country as they see it, not our country, but their
country is run by a black man. It could not have happened legitimately as
they see it. So they make up these farfetched tales that Obama somehow
stole this. There was some kind of vast conspiracy that allowed this --
you know, this exotic person who`s not a real American because a real
American president in their view would be white, allowed this person who`s
not a real American to take over. The vast majority of us know that`s not
true. But these folks are members of a different universe.

SHARPTON: Now, Professor Peterson, Joe the plumber. You remember him.
Sarah Palin`s friend made headlines about his criticism of then-candidate
Obama in 2008. Well, he`s making headlines again. On his blog, he post an
article with the headline America needs a white Republican president.
Quote, "Wanting a white Republican president doesn`t make you a racist, it
just makes you American." He printed this article on his blog.

PETERSON: Yes, I mean, listen. America needs a president that`s
representative of the American people. Here`s what really tricky about the
Republicans do though Rev. Is that so he makes this kind of racist
statement and does it very, very deliberately and then gets really offended
and defensive about being accused of being a racist. It`s the same thing
that they did in the actual rally this weekend which is they`re trying to
accuse the president of using veterans as political pawns as they`re using
veterans as political pawns. And so, we don`t need to go for that kind of
Okie dokie ropie dokie (ph) strategy.

Joe the plumber or whatever his real name is, is a guy who came into the
political scene by pandering to these kind of folk. The folk that Cynthia
is talking about. A small minority within the Republican Party and really
within the fringe of that party who cannot accept the fact that we have an
African-American president and cannot accept the fact of the changing
demographics of this nation. There are so many things that feed into this,


PETERSON: When people talk about entitlements or when people talk about
government programs, things of that nature, they are coating those things
as having to do with black and brown people even though those services go
out to all Americans. People used race in very, very subtle ways to
manipulate the political process.

SHARPTON: Cynthia Tucker and James Peterson, thank you both for your time

TUCKER: Good to be here, Rev.

SHARPTON: Coming up, if Republicans want to rebrand, maybe taking the
stage with Glenn Beck and a guy who called the president a gay Kenyan
Muslim isn`t such a good idea. That`s next.


SHARPTON: Texas Senator Ted Cruz has led the right wing charge to hold the
economy hostage as a way to end the health care law. So it`s no wonder he
appeared with other far right politicians at the values voters` summit.
And guess who they shared the stage with. Right wingers like Glenn Beck
who this weekend compared his confederates to President Lincoln`s war
against slavery.


GLENN BECK, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: A big gawky skinny guy with a goofy hat
stood up and said I am a Republican, and I`m going to end slavery. Abraham
Lincoln. You`re on the verge of winning. You`re on the verge of winning,
and it`s going to happen quickly if you don`t compromise your values.
Raise a standard that the wise and the honest can repair the event is in
the hand of God.


SHARPTON: Hear that, America? Holding the country hostage is just like
freeing the slaves. New wisdom from the man who once said President Obama
has, quote, "A deep seeded hatred for white people." If he weren`t extreme
enough, how about Joseph Ferra. He runs World Net Daily. A website that
has claimed Obama hid his gay life to become president. That wonders is
Obama sending Muslims a subtle message. And then offers up the smoking gun
of Obama`s Kenyan birth certificate. Yep. The guy who thinks our
president is a gay Muslim Kenyan actually moderated a discussion at this
summit. That`s where the GOP`s leading voices were this weekend. Sharing
the stage with people sprouting anti-gay, anti-contraception rhetoric like


the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, for NAACP.
The National Association for the Abortion of Colored People.

SANDY RIOS, HOST, "SANDY RIOS IN THE MORNING": We love everyone including
homosexuals enough to tell them the truth about the moral and spiritual
dangers of homosexual conduct.

GARY BAUER, PRES., AMERICAN VALUES: Now we live in an era where a
president praises a promiscuous co-ed because she thinks you ought to buy
her birth control pills.

STAR PARKER, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: Homosexuality is now dividing us and
bringing hostility into the public square.


SHARPTON: What`s really extreme is that the future of the Republican Party
was right on the stage with them, walking in lock step. So how`s all that
rebranding going?

Joining me now is Krystal Ball, co-host of "THE CYCLE" here on MSNBC. And
Frank Schaeffer, a former evangelical turned progressive. He`s currently a
columnist for "The Huffington Post" and author of the book "And God Said
"Billy!" Thank you both for coming on the show tonight.

KRYSTAL BALL, CO-HOST, "THE CYCLE": Thanks for having us, Rev.

SHARPTON: Frank, let me go to you. You once were an evangelical. What
can you say about these Republicans on stage with these people with
fanatical positions?

something that the American public has to understand and it has to start
with the media. You`re one of the only people who gets this, by the way.
And that is these people`s problem is not a political problem. It`s a
religious problem. These are religious fanatics.


SCHAEFFER: And I`ve got to tell you something. The reason I wrote "And
God Said Billy" is to unpack the spirit of religious fanaticism that has
taken over our country and it`s delusional. So that when we say how can
they think they`re winning, you played that great clip of Glenn Beck. How
can they think they`re on the right side? Or you know, someone like Mark
Meadows, the congressman who wrote the letter and got all those people to
sign it to get all this going. The key about these folks is to ask what do
they believe? Where do they go to church? What are the philosophical
positions that drive them into the area of logic? It`s a religious problem
that has bled over into politics and that`s why no one get them --

SHARPTON: And the calculation Krystal is not political because it`s a
religious fanaticism. And that`s why they`re not looking at polls.
They`re on a different frequency.

BALL: Right.

SHARPTON: Some of the statements made at the Value Voters Summit was
downright bizarre. And understand it when you hear what Frank is saying.
They set things like the U.S. was compared to Nazi Germany because of
abortion. Contraception coverage was called a descendant of the French
revolution. One work shop leader called for an aggressive and offensive
culture war. President Obama was told to sit down and shut-up and that
drew a wild applause.

BALL: I`m sure it did.

SHARPTON: This is the kind of stuff happening this weekend.

BALL: And it`s unbelievable. And the problem is that you`re always going
to have people who are way out there on the fringe in any society. But the
problem is that the Republicans allowed these folks to take control of
their party. And they were more than happy to do it when they form this
coalition, when it helped them to win elections in 2000 and get George W.
Bush re-elected in 2004. They were happy to see their party to the
extremes when it helped them create energy for 2010.

But that very success that they had had electorally in 2010 also sowed the
seeds of their destruction. Because they have gone so far out of the
mainstream and they have enabled these people, they`ve said, yes, your
right, your cause is just, we believe in you, that they can`t come back
now, they can`t take it back. They tried after the 2012 lost to President
Obama. They tried some efforts at rebranding. But they were too far gone
because they have been feeding this rhetoric and enabling this people for
far too long.

SHARPTON: Frank, the thing that also strikes me is you are a religious man
even though you are no longer with the right wing evangelicals. All of us,
I have deep beliefs as a minister, but when you hear them talk over and
over again at this summit slamming programs that actually help people, what
is this all about? Listen to this.


DR. BEN CARSON, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: ObamaCare is really I think the
worst thing that has happened in this nation since slavery.

SEN. MIKE LEE (R), UTAH: It`s time to rethink our dysfunctional welfare
system. That holds poor families down.

FMR. REP. ALLEN WEST (R), FLORIDA: We are moving away from an opportunist
society to a dependency society. You don`t believe that, look at all the
street corners that accept EBT cards.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: We need to make sure our government
programs encourage work, not dependence. But our people want jobs. They
don`t want a safety net as a way of life.

REP. MICHELLE BACHMANN (R), MINNESOTA: This egregious system that will be
ultimately known as death care must be defeated.


SHARPTON: So these are people that claim to be the ones that hold values,
yet they go after every program that helps people. What kind of values?
What kind of religion is that? Is that the fanaticism you`re talking

SCHAEFFER: Yes. I mean, I keep going back to the word, religious
delusion. The fact is and people don`t want to say this because we believe
in religious freedom, and I do too. And I will be in church next Sunday.
But the fact of the matter is --

SHARPTON: I`ll be there tomorrow night, but go ahead.

SCHAEFFER: -- that the evangelical movement has been hijacked by
fundamentalist far right minority. They in turn the evangelicals have
hijacked the Republican Party who are now holding you and me hostage. And
that is what has happened. And so we have to start talking about the
quality of insane religion. Listen, the right wing always accuses the left
of not being quote, "Open enough about say, Islamic terrorism."


SCHAEFFER: They want us to hang that on the Islamic community. Which is
ridiculous. It would be equally ridiculous to hang this around the neck of
all evangelicals, that said.


SCHAEFFER: The evangelical right is the fairest, they have undermined this
country, and tonight they are anti-American. And in this analysis in "And
God Said Billy," what I try to show is that religious delusion leads to
personal disaster. But in our case, they`ve taken over one of our
political parties.

SHARPTON: Will the party ever cut these fanatics loose, Krystal? Will the
established religious leadership on the right cut them loose or have they
become so much hostage themselves that they can`t these people that have
become committed to this fanaticism loose?

BALL: They may cut themselves loose. I mean, if you look at folks who
identify with this wing of the party, they are very dissatisfied with the
Republican establishment. So they may go away themselves. I think it
would be very hurtful to the GOP in the short-term and very good for them
in the long-term. Because this is not a sustainable mainstream governing
part of the movement.

SHARPTON: Scary. Krystal Ball, Frank Schaeffer, thank you both for your
time this evening.

BALL: Thanks, Rev.


SHARPTON: Don`t forget to catch Krystal on "THE CYCLE" week days at 3:00
p.m. right here on MSNBC.

Up next, caught on tape. A stop and frisk confrontation in Philadelphia.


SHARPTON: We`re back with a stop and frisk case caught on tape. Two
Philadelphia police officers stopped two men walking down a street last
month, and the incident was recorded on a cell phone.


UNIDENTIFIED MAN: How you doing, sir?

POLICE OFFICER: Come here. You got an id?

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: What seems to be the problem?

POLICE OFFICER: You got an id? You live around here?

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I`m going to work.

POLICE OFFICER: Did you know that guy sitting down there on that step?


POLICE OFFICER: You know the guy that was sitting down on the step,
putting his -- back on? Then why were you talking to him?

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I was just saying hi to him.

POLICE OFFICER: Why? You don`t say hi to strangers.


POLICE OFFICER: Not in this neighborhood. You got anything on you?


I`m not asking you for a consent. I`m going to (bleep) --

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Then why are you doing this?

POLICE OFFICER: Because I just told you to! Don`t (bleep) play though,
you`ll be on the (bleep) same block as him. And put your phone in the

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Why I got to put my phone in the pocket. I didn`t do

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Come on officer, I`m sorry, officer, officer, I didn`t
do anything.

POLICE OFFICER: You`re under investigation right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Investigation of what? I was walking.

POLICE OFFICER: That`s not what I saw.


SHARPTON: It seems like the man did put his phone in his pocket. But he
left the recording device on.


POLICE OFFICER: Then don`t come to (bleep) Philadelphia. Stay in Jersey.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I have family out here.

POLICE OFFICER: Yes, man. Don`t come over here. We don`t want you here
anyway. All you do is weaken the (bleep) country.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Ye, how do I weaken the country? How do I weaken the
country? By working?

POLICE OFFICER: No, freeloading.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Freeloading? Freeloading off or what?

(radio noise)

Freeloading. I work.







POLICE OFFICER: Server, serving what? Weed?

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Yes. Serving weed.


SHARPTON: This video shows the problem with the stop and frisk policy. A
police spokesman says, there`s an active investigation underway. We`ll be
following this story closely.


SHARPTON: Finally tonight looking for political courage. For weeks,
months, years we`ve been waiting for Speaker Boehner to show some real
leadership. We`ve waited for him to stand up to the Tea Party fringe and
we`ve waited for him to end this shutdown. He might forever be known as
the guy who couldn`t lead. In my new book "The Rejected Stone," I write
about defining yourself.


SHARPTON: Define yourself before others do it for you talks about how
whatever you project, and whatever will be your brand and your legacy, you
ought to define it. Because if you don`t have that in mind, if you`re not
committed to that, if you don`t shape and mold who you are going to be to
the world, the world will do it for you. You`re going to be branded as
something. You`re going to be known as something. In a small circle to
the world. You should decide what that is and you ought to put that
profile, that picture, that image in your mind and you give that to the
world rather than the world reflect on you what it wants to see.


I`m really excited for my new book. If you`d like to read an excerpt,
please go to our Facebook page. and find
details about my next book signing in Baltimore tomorrow. I`ll be at
empowerment temple in Baltimore, Maryland. That`s 1505 Utah place,
Baltimore. I`ll be there at 7:30 with Pastor Jamal Bryant and Senator
Larry Young. I hope to see you there. Political courage, define yourself.
I`ve learned that if you stand up for what you believe and have the courage
and say this is who I am, you`re going to get attacked. You`re going to
have some that will attack out of envy and jealousy, others out of
disagreement. It didn`t matter. Stand up and be the person and represent
the beliefs that you really, really, firmly hold passionate. That will
define you.

Thanks for watching. I`m Al Sharpton. "HARDBALL" starts right now.



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