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The Ed Show for Friday, July 25th, 2014

Read the transcript to the Friday show

July 25, 2014

Guest: David Cay, Arthur Laffer, William, Barber, Bernie Sanders, Lionel


RONALD REAGAN, 40TH U.S. PRESIDENT: You might be willing to ask yourself.

GEORGE W. BUSH, 43RD U.S. PRESIDENT: We`re in the midst of a serious
financial crisis.

REAGAN: Ask yourself.

economic measure where we`re not significantly better off.

JOHN BOEHNER, (R-OH), HOUSE SPEAKER: There`s new normal under the Obama

OBAMA: I don`t have to tell you about the stock market.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On Wall Street, a record breaking day for stocks. New
all-time high.

OBAMA: Unemployment now lower than it was pre-Lehman.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Unemployment dropping to 6.1 percent, the lowest in
nearly six years.

OBAMA: The auto industry recovering.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And let Detroit go bankrupt.

OBAMA: When it comes to deficits, we`ve cut the, by more than half.


PAUL RYAN, (R) WISCONSIN: The Obama economy is not working.

REAGAN: Are you better off than you were?


ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: Good to have you with tonight folks. Thanks for
watching. You know, it is July 25th, NFL teams are going to training camp,
folks around the country who love the sport are thinking about their
fantasy football team coming up this fall. Who do you pick?

But when you pick, you want performance, you want numbers, you want some
hard stuff to go on when you say, "Yeah, I want that player." Well
tonight, I`m going to give you some numbers that you just can`t argue with.
We want to start tonight with the under covered story in America, it`s the
Obama economy.

The biggest piece of hidden news in recent months as I see it is great news
surrounding America`s economic recovery. It really is almost amazing. The
Obama economy is booming. How can we not make that case?

Typically, the president is always reluctant to talk about good economic
news. He`s always been so concerned about the downtrodden and don`t want
to oversell how good things are because they don`t want to hurt folks that
are out there still looking for work. But, hold the phone.

On Thursday, we saw a reversal and a different tone from the President.
President Obama had no problem highlighting America`s recent economic
success in an interview with CNBC.


OBAMA: If you think about where we were, Steve, when I came into office
and where we are now, it`s pretty hard to find an economic measure where
we`re not significantly better off. I don`t have to tell you about the
stock market and where that`s gone. Corporate profits, record highs. But
also, unemployment now lower than it was pre-Lehman. We`ve seen the
housing market recover, although not as fast as we`d like. The auto
industry recovering. We remain the most dynamic, innovative economy in the


SCHULTZ: Yeah. Mr. President, just a little bit more enthusiasm there,
this is great stuff. And they of course were trying to pin all the
doldrums on you. Remember back in 2009 after the inauguration, everybody
was talking about in the conservative side, "Well, when is this Obama`s

Now, admitting that the economy needs improvement, the President is spot
on. Here are the facts. He`s right about the stock market, it`s hitting
record highs. The Dow Jones routinely topped 17,000. Now, we`ve seen the
market surge through some international crises in recent weeks, have we
not? The most recent job report shows that we added 288,000 jobs in June.
We have had 52 months of private sector job growth, uninterrupted, 52
straight months headed for 53. 9.7 million jobs have been added since
early 2010, now that`s significant because there was some bill called
Obamacare that passed back then, everybody says is going to be a job
killer. The unemployment rate has now dropped to 6.1 percent. It`s the
lowest rate since September of 2008.

Oh, let`s not forget the automobile industry, that`s booming too. Remember
the Republicans didn`t want to do they said the "bailout," no, it was a
loan, it`s being paid back, it`s good for the treasury, and it saved a lot
of jobs. The housing market has rebounded. Your home is worth more today.
Corporate profits are through the roof and they are record highs in many

And this thing called Obamacare that they have voted to get rid off at the
Republican house, where`s the march to get rid of it? People kind of like
it, it`s working better than ever. Now, everything I`ve said is a fact.
Everything I`ve said is a fact.

It`s truly a remarkable turnaround in the midst of all the naysayers. All
this was done in the face of blatant Republican obstruction, a Congress
that will not work with this president. President Obama made it clear, if
Republicans did their jobs, America would be in much better shape.


OBAMA: There are some things that are holding us back. The main thing
that`s holding us back is inaction by our federal government on things like
infrastructure, on raising the minimum wage, on doing some things that
would help middle-class families feel a little bit of relief. If we do
those things, then we`re going to be in pretty good shape.


SCHULTZ: That`s a big "if" because it`s going to be a real hard sell to
get the Republicans onboard with anything with this president. They are
back to claiming a wage increase for workers in this country would kill


SEN. TED CRUZ, (R) TEXAS: I want the American people to realize, every
member of the Senate that votes for the minimum wage is voting to tell up
to 1 million Americans, "Your jobs don`t matter to me." Because I`m voting
to take away your job.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don`t believe the studies that.

RYAN: Moving to $10.10 is not going to be a game changer in the economy.
Some people...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s correct...

RYAN: ... it will hurt the economy.

I disagree with that, I think it will hurt the economy because it raises
the price of labor.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO, (R) FLORIDA: Liberals offer up increases in taxes in the
minimum wage as ways of helping the struggling earn more. What they don`t
tell you these policies would result and many people like Christine (ph)
potentially losing their jobs.


SCHULTZ: Republicans are wrong. States that increase the minimum wage
created more jobs than states that did not raise their minimum wage. Over
the past several years, Republicans in fact have been rolled on nearly
every facet of the economy. Let`s roll it back to 2012. We were told
repealing the Bush tax cuts would hurt the job creators.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was money they were going to invest in creating a
job. Well, that was money they were going to spend in the economy. Now
the government is going to take it.

BOEHNER: You want to talk about train wreck you`re talking about a big

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can`t be for jobs and against the very people who
create the jobs.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL, (R) KENTUCKY: Our friends on the other side are
practicing what -- the best to describe is Thelma & Louise economics.
Let`s just march the whole country right off the cliff.

as opposed to looking at a cliff in January that would cause, well, real
distress for the economy.


SCHULTZ: Again, Republicans were wrong. It`s all theory, pie in the sky,
none of it came true. They were wrong on everything. Now, after the Bush
tax cuts, we have to point out that when they expired, corporate profits
went through the roof.

President Obama said that the business of America would move forward with
the expiration of the Bush tax cuts. Well, the Republicans were telling us
it was going to be a job killer. The green line here is when the tax cuts
expired. We`ve seen 18 straight months of private sector job growth since
we went back to the old Clinton rates. Well, Republicans told us that
Obamacare was going to kill jobs.


JOHN CORNYN (R), TEXAS: When Obamacare was debated in Congress, we
screamed from rooftops that it just wouldn`t work. That it would be a job

CRUZ: Obamacare is the biggest job killer in this country.

SEN. MICHELE BACHMANN, (R) MINNESOTA: Let`s repeal this failure before it
literally kills women, kills children, kills senior citizens, let`s not do
that, let`s love people.

MCCONNELL: But there`s only one escape hatch that will fully help those
trapped by this law, and that`s full repeal.

BOEHNER: In my opinion, Obamacare is the biggest job killer we have in
America today.


SCHULTZ: Job killer, Republicans were wrong again. This is where it gets
really good. If you look at the numbers, it`s clear, Obamacare did not
kill jobs. If anything, Obamacare created jobs in the country, you see
after the law was signed the economy added over 9 million jobs since
President Obama put his name right on that piece of paper and signed the
Affordable Care Act.

How could the Republicans be so wrong by millions of people? Republicans
as I see it, in the final analysis as we roll to this midterm, they have
zero credibility on the economy. They have been wrong on everything and
they continue to be wrong, Americans needs to remember this when they hear
the argument against infrastructure investment and minimum wage.

When you look at the ledger, it`s absolutely amazing where President Obama
when he took over, this economy and where we are today. Democrats need to
stop being so shy. Democrats need to stop being so shy and count the Obama

If Democrats can`t go home and run on these numbers, then maybe they should
think about a different line of work. This is part of public service,
making people feel good about America and the way this country is moving
forward. There`s a lot of negative news out there.

It would be easy to start the Ed Show every night with negative story,
negative story, negative story. Wait a minute, Democrats you want to win
the south? Go home and talk about the numbers. Go home and talk about the
absolutes. Go home and talk about how no one from the Republican camp has
been onboard with this president from day one on the economy. They fought
him on automobiles, they fought him on the stimulus package, they voted to
repeal Obamacare, they won`t do anything on minimum wage, they want to help
the corporations outsource jobs overseas, they want to protect their
profits offshore. Everything this president has tried to do with the
economy, the Republicans have said it won`t work. And they have failed
every single time.

If you can`t run on that, don`t run. If you can`t run on that, don`t run.
It`s easy, it`s a slam-dunk if there ever was one to be able to go home and
say, America is headed in the right direction. The Democrats have been
correct on the economy from day one.

The progressive agenda has brought this country back strong. And nobody in
the corporate world is crying about the bottom line. In fact, I read a
story earlier today that said, you know, layoffs aren`t as frequent as they
used to be in our economy. We`re moving in the right direction.

If you are a fair-minded American, and you care about jobs and you care
about our economy and your kids` future, whether you`re a liberal or a
conservative, middle of the road, green, pink, blue, whatever, do you think
it`s worth a phone call to your representative and just to ask them, "Why
can`t we build bridges and roads in America because everything else has
been going pretty good. Why can`t we raise the minimum wage in this
country, because everybody at the top seems to be doing pretty well?
Things have more than stabilized. It`s a booming economy."

Get your cellphones out. I want to know what you think. Tonight`s
question, "Do Republicans have any credibility left on the economy?" Text
A for yes, text B for no to 67622. You can always go to our blog at We`ll bring in the results later on in the show.

And one more thing, use your imagination tonight as I started out talking
about fantasy football. Use your imagination tonight. Fantasize. What it
would sound like, if Mitt Romney was the President of the United States
right now. "Oh, is this Mitt`s economy. It`s a good thing we elected Mitt
in November 2012. In fact, this -- Mitt is probably the best economic
president we`ve ever had." I make the case that`s what we would be

For more, let me bring in two gentlemen who know the economy. Pulitzer
Prize-winning journalist David Cay Johnston, and economist Dr. Arthur
Laffer of Laffer Associates. Great to have both of you gentlemen with us


SCHULTZ: David Cay, can the -- you bet. Can the Democrats, you know,
officially say that the Obama economy is booming by the numbers?

lot better. It`s getting a lot better Ed. I think it would be getting
better if the Republicans are willing to invest in the future of America by
fixing up the infrastructure we`ve been consuming and using up, by putting
money in the basic research which government always funds, and by putting
money into education, especially higher education.

But we`re doing well. We`re going in the right direction. We could be
getting there a lot faster, but for this ideology that makes tax, a four-
letter word.

SCHULTZ: Mr. Laffer, we were told by conservatives that Obamacare was a
job killer. We were told that if the Bush tax cuts were to expire and we
would go back to the old Clinton rates, that it would be a job killer. Why
were they wrong on that? Were they wrong on that? Your thoughts on it.

LAFFER: Well, let me just say, I loved your monologue Ed and I really do
think you`re completely correct that the Democrats should run on the
economic record. I really agree.

But I do think you`re incorrect on some of the numbers that you use and I
don`t mean to get in the details, but employment -- I mean, you`ve seen the
unemployment rate come way down just as what you`ve said it did. But what
you didn`t mention is that the participation rate has fallen equally as
rapidly and every person has gone off the unemployed role has literally
gone out of employment into the not -- out of the labor force.

So, if you look at employment as a share of the total adult population,
it`s been flat for seven years. Now, that`s not to say that W (ph) wasn`t
as bad as any President we`ve ever had. He was and I so back then, but
Obama has not done anything to make the employment go.

If you look at GDP, I mean, the total amount of goods and services
produced, last quarter it was down by 2.9 percent Ed, in real terms. Now,
it is below the long-term trend by more than any period in the last 67


LAFFER: So, it`s a really serious problem I think.

SCHULTZ: So Mr. Laffer -- OK, I respect your answers but it sounds like
you think that the Bureau of Labor Statistics is cooking a book. It`s 6.9
percent on employment.

LAFFER: No, I don`t think so at all.


LAFFER: I just think you`re not mentioning the participation rate. And
that`s equally as important in employment.

SCHULTZ: All right. I asked you if, you know, the Republicans told us
that if we don`t extend the Bush tax cuts that it would kill jobs. That
clearly didn`t happen. Would you agree?

LAFFER: No, jobs had been created only at the rate of growth of
population. Now, if you want to say the population is growing for the last
17, 18, 35 years, that`s true, it`s grown every single month. That`s why
employment has grown is because the population has grown but the employment
to population ratio has not grown. There`s not been a recovery and that`s
what`s happened.

SCHULTZ: All right. Your thoughts on that, David Cay?

JOHNSTON: Well, I agree with Arthur and I`ve written about this repeatedly
that -- especially during the Bush years, and at the end we had -- the
population growing at one point, I think 10 times the rate...

LAFFER: Exactly.

JOHNSTON: ... of job growth. But why don`t we have job growth? It`s
because instead of using our tax money -- right, instead of using our tax
money to invest in the economy in the ways that I`ve described, we`re in
this mode of, "Oh, if we cut the boss` taxes, I`ll lose my work."

And what do we find out in California? We raised taxes in California by
the voters, roughly a third on million dollars plus earners in California`s
job growth is 50 percent higher than the nation as a whole. Now this --
there`s lot of conflict reasons for that. But you cannot make the case


JOHNSTON: ... that raising taxes on the incomes of those at the top is
suppressing job. You could make the case if it was say doubling the Social
Security tax.

LAFFER: Can I respond on that?

SCHULTZ: What about the minimum wage?

Yes, go ahead sir. Go ahead.

LAFFER: No, go ahead. No, I`ll be -- I do agree with -- that you should,
of all the government spending the most productive education,
infrastructure, those are all the right things to spend on. No economists
would disagree there.

The question is, I have never heard of an economy being taxed into
prosperity, when in fact the moneys are squandered as they were by Bush and
as they were by Obama in stimulus packages. They just threw the money
away. That makes no sense, but spending on good programs is great.

SCHULTZ: All right. Mr. Laffer, we`ve heard that Obamacare is a job
killer, we`ve heard that the Bush tax cuts expiration would be a job
killer, what about minimum wage?

Now, we`re hearing that this would kill jobs. Do you believe that raising
the minimum wage to the $10.10 would kill jobs in America?

LAFFER: I think it would hurt the job market, yes. I mean, it would hurt
because you`re taking the money exactly away from those companies who are
employing these minimum wage workers and they`re going to hire less people.
It`s very simple, if you take more money away from...

SCHULTZ: That`s a theory.

LAFFER: ... high or less.

SCHULTZ: Isn`t that a theory? Corporate profits are through the roof.
Wall Streets doing great, it`s rolling, the Dow is reaching record highs.
I mean, we have seen gasoline go up since 2009 ...


SCHULTZ: ... 44 percent. We`ve seen...

LAFFER: You`re right.

SCHULTZ: ... food prices go up. We got to help folks and they are


SCHULTZ: ... I mean, they`re helping create that wealth. So, I don`t see
that raising the minimum wage would kill jobs in America.

LAFFER: But it would, because frankly the profits of these companies are
having are not all in the backs of the minimum wage workers. These are in
everyone else.

Imagine if we raise the minimum wage to $200 an hour, hypothetical, just so
you can see the principles (ph).

SCHULTZ: Well, we`re not doing that.

LAFFER: How many of those -- no, no.

SCHULTZ: That`s a.

LAFFER: No -- but the hypothetical shows you the effect that this would
have, although it`d be much, much smaller. You`re completely correct on
that, but you`re taking the money from those companies that hire these
small low-wage workers. Those are the companies you want to support.

Now, if you want to supplement the minimum wage, let`s do it. But let`s
not do it on the backs of those people who avoid them.

SCHULTZ: Gentlemen I`m going to have both -- we`re going to talk more
about this. I`m going to have you back again. I appreciate ...

LAFFER: Id` love to.

SCHULTZ: ... both of you being on. David Cay Johnston and also Arthur
Laffer with us tonight.

I`m a demand guy. I believe you create demand, the economy goes. If you
put money in people`s pocket and pay them for the job they do, the
economists got a cook. That`s where I`m at. I`m not a supply sider in
that regard.

All right. Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of
the screen. Share your thoughts with us on Twitter at Ed Show and on
Facebook and like us at WeGotEd as well. We want to know what you think.

Coming up, Senator Bernie Sanders takes a stand against corporate
deserters. He`ll join me ahead.

But first, over 1,000 fast food workers are expected to gather in Chicago
over the weekend in the fight for 15.

Trenders is next. We`re right back.


SCHULTZ: What`s hot, what`s not? Time now for Trenders.

Keep in touch, join the Ed team. Follow us on Twitter@edshow and at
WeGotEd. Like us on Facebook. Now, there`s where you get my podcast, just
like the radio show,,, and
And on iTunes, it`s all free, just like the radio show.

Commentary, interviews, sound bytes, the latest news.

The Ed Show Social Media Nation has decided. We are reporting. Here are
today`s Top Trenders voted on by you.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The number three trender, pumps up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The frustration felt in the town of Somerset is a
feeling shared across South Central Kentucky.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prices could be $3.40 and the next day $3.70.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, take the top (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are just simply ripping off the public, and they`re
doing it because of greed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A Kentucky town takes on high gas prices.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The city-run fuel center is the first of it`s kind
anywhere in the U.S.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fill her up. Fill her up son, and a little bit extra.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Supporters call it a benefit for motorists. It is a
role of government to protect us from big business.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The city-run station is already having a big effect on
those prices, dropping them all over town.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is our economy, and we can`t allow anybody to
continue to gulge us and take money right from us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The number two trender, cashing in.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I think (inaudible).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seventeen siblings came forward to share the $20
million jackpot in New Jersey.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: New Jersey siblings win big by carrying on their mom`s

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A winning ticket from a game played for years by
their mother.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want you to play my number for me on the way home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two of the family members are going to use the money to
repair homes damaged by hurricane Sandy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It couldn`t come at a better time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Things are looking up. Thanks to the state of New
Jersey and my mom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And today`s top trender, food fight.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fast food workers will gather in Chicago this

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fast food workers from around the country are expected.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re making a difference. We`re getting bigger and

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fast food workers meet in Chicago to continue the push
for higher wages.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re going to strategize, develop plans to campaign
for higher wages, and better working conditions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you`re making over $3 billion and you`re paying
the workers a bare minimum, that`s not right.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Organizers say higher profile protests are coming.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who`s on favor (inaudible)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take our wages, super size.


SCHULTZ: Joining me tonight is Reverend Dr. William Barber. He`s the
pastor at Greenleaf Christian Church in North Carolina and President of the
North Carolina State Conference to the NAACP.

Reverend, great to have you with us tonight. What impact do you think
these strikes, these protests are going to have for these workers? Will
the industry bend to their wishes?

ultimately they have -- you know, this is a moral issue, as old as the
scriptures in Isaiah. The Bible says, stop exploiting workers and pay them
what they deserve.

This is a moral crisis and it must be raised in that way. When you think
about the fact that CEO make a thousand times more than these workers, I
think about Crystal (ph) who`s sat in at Speaker Tillis` office in North
Carolina recently. She`s a mother with two children with cervical cancer.
She doesn`t make enough money to afford insurance and yet in North Carolina
she can`t get Medicaid expansion because we couldn`t -- we haven`t expanded
it in our state.

Or another lady who goes to work and lives in the parking lot with her
children but works full time in fast food at McDonald`s. These are human
stories. This is a moral issue and I believe ultimately they will
ultimately win.

SCHULTZ: So, when you say ultimately win, you think that this is the
beginning of maybe a wage movement in America?

BARBER: I think we have to. Remember the last movement that Dr. King
(inaudible) was about wage movement. I knew President and CEO, Attorney
Cornell Brooks talked about how the moral map does not add up when we
exploit workers, when we deny labor rights, we deny -- unemployment, and on
national convention.

And on national convention, I was on the floor when the entire delegates of
the NAACP convention voted to support fast food workers in their call for
15. Remember that the opponents of this are the same people that -- they
are against earning income tax credit that even Ronald Reagan supported.
They`re against unemployment, now they`re against raising the minimum wage.
They use the same arguments that people use when Franklin Delano Roosevelt
sought to raise the minimum wage. They say it will destroy...


BARBER: ... business, well it didn`t. In fact, when we raised it. They
say it`s bad for the county, but it`s not.

SCHULTZ: Well, Reverend Barber, the conservatives are against raising the
minimum wage, the Republicans, the radicals don`t want to pay...

BARBER: Right.

SCHULTZ: ... workers in this country. It`s very clear what their position

These are the same people that count family values. These are the same
people who, you know, for instance support groups like focus on the family.
Bottom line here is, are they hypocrites -- you call it a moral issue.
Where is their morality on it?

BARBER: Well, the reality, I believe is that when you say that you support
the moral position of Judeo-Christian belief, you cannot be against wage if
you cannot be against healthcare. If anything, the scriptures talk about
we have preach good news to the poor and the word "poor" in the New
Testament means the pt¢chos, those who have been made poor by systemic
discrimination. So you have to deal with systems.

Denial of minimum wage, keeping minimum wage at a rate that it was in 1968
is a form of exploitation. And that`s why we must say...


BARBER: ... that there`s something -- moral issues are more than abortion
and praying in school and those things. We must talk about wages, we must
talk about public education, we must talk about healthcare. Those are the
real moral issues of our time.

SCHULTZ: William Barber, Reverend Dr. William Barber, pastor at the
Greenleaf Christian Church in North Carolina, great to have you with us.
We will have you back to talk about this issue. It has to happen for the
young folks in this country. No doubt about it. Thank you Reverend.

Coming up, Americans have hurt the feelings of Former Senate Candidate Todd
Akin. The Pretenders is next.

Senator Bernie Sanders stands up to the companies committing corporate
inversion. Stay with us, we`ll be right back on the Ed Show.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. We have some breaking news at this
hour concerning jobs. The United States Commerce Department has just set
new import duties on solar products from China and Taiwan. The United
States government found that solar panel cells were being sold too cheaply
on the U.S. market. This is a violation of a trade agreement. This is no
doubt good news for U.S. solar panel manufacturers.

The decision comes a week after the Commerce Department announced new
tariffs on South Korean steel being dumped on the United States.

For months, union leaders in this country have said that China cheats when
it comes to trade, they were reeled in this day for solar panel violations
by the United States Commerce Department.

There`s a lot more coming up. Stay with us. You`re watching the Ed Show
on MSNBC. We`ll be right back.

BERTHA COOMBS, CNBC CORRESPONDENT: I`m Bertha Coombs with your CNBC Market
Wrap. The Dow plunging 123 points, the S&P lost 9, while the Nasdaq
dropped 22 spots, ending the week on a down note and down for the week.

Orders of durable goods rebounded in June up 0.7 percent on increased
demand for commercial aircraft and machinery. And oil prices edged up 2
cents to close just above $102 a barrel.

Pandora shares out with a tumble dropping 11 percent, the music screening
company beat second quarter expectations on its earnings but saw decline in
audience growth in June.

That`s it from CNBC. We`re first in business, worldwide.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. Thanks for watching tonight. Some
greedy U.S. corporations are skipping out on paying their fair share taxes.
In the long run, it will hurt middle class Americans, it will be a trickle
down we`ll have to pay for it, right?

A tax code loophole known as corporate inversion allows U.S. companies to
reduce their tax burden to the treasury by moving part of their business
offshore. Companies are setting up shop in nations with lower corporate
tax rates and then calling these countries home. It allows companies to
dodge U.S. taxes they would otherwise have to pay.

On Thursday, President Obama said, the corporate tax dodging is bad for


OBAMA: For you to continue to benefit from that entire architecture that
helps you thrive, but move your technical address simply to avoid paying
taxes, is neither fair, nor is it something that`s going to be good for the
country over the long term.. And this is basically taking advantage of tax
provisions that are technically legal.

But I think most people would say, "If you`re doing business here, if
you`re basically still an American company, but you`re simply changing your
mailing address in order to avoid paying taxes, then you`re really not
doing right by the country and by the American people."


SCHULTZ: Corporate deserters are growing by the year in this country. The
CBO reports 47 companies have done inversions over the last 10 years. The
White House estimates corporate inversion could cause the treasury up to
$20 billion over the next decade.

The latest example is a pharmaceutical company named AbbVie. AbbVie is
seeking to merge with an Irish company to dodge taxes. The company`s
effective tax rate would drop from 22 percent to 13 percent by the year

This was the last straw for Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont. The
independent said that he will file an amendment to the defense
authorization bill targeting tax dodgers. The amendment would prohibit the
government from awarding federal contracts to companies that incorporate
overseas to avoid paying taxes.

These inversions are a blatant example of corporate greed. And make no
mistake about it, middle class Americans will end up footing the bill for
these tax dodgers later on down the line.

It`s not fair. Congress has to take action and there is very little time
before the end of this session.

Let me bring in Senator Bernie Sanders tonight from Vermont. Senator,
great to have you with us and thank you for doing this, it`s long overdue.
What do you want to say to these corporate deserters? What has to happen,

BERNIE SANDERS, (I) VERMONT: What has to happen is they can`t enjoy the
benefits of being an American company if they`re going to desert us and go
to Ireland or got to the UK to take advantage of tax benefits in those
countries. And I think the American people are catching on that many of
these major countries, major corporations have no allegiance to the United
States of America, their only allegiance is to the bottom line. And if
they can move to China to save a few bucks until American workers are out
on the street, that`s OK. If they can move to the UK or Switzerland to
avoid paying taxes in the United States, that`s OK.

And what we have to say is, "Sorry, that really is not OK." Being a
deserter, a corporate deserter and betraying your own country is really not
OK. So if you want to move abroad, number one, and you`re making profits
here in the United States, you`re going to pay your fair share of taxes.
You can`t put your money in the Cayman Islands and pretend that doesn`t
exist and we`ve got legislation to do that.

But now, in terms of the Defense Authorization Act, what we`re going to do
is say, "If you want to call Switzerland or the UK your home, guess what?
You`re not going to be bidding on defense contracts for the United States
government." And I would generalize that to say you`re not going to bid on
contracts for any agency in the (inaudible). Walgreens for example, who
you mentioned, who wants to hook up with a Swiss company. They had
billions of dollars every year from Medicare and Medicaid. You can`t get
money from Medicaid and Medicare if you want to be a Swiss company.

And the other thing that I would say ...


SANDERS: ... is that there are huge loopholes that these guys are already
taking advantage. One out of four corporations Ed, in America pays zero in
taxes, including GE, Verizon and Boeing.

So these guys are not being beaten up with horrendous tax rates, they`re
just trying to make an extra nickel at the expense of the American people.

SCHULTZ: Well of course, they`re going to come back and make the case of
the corporate tax rates in this country are way too high and they`ve been
forced to do this to keep their profits, which absolutely is hogwash. But
the numbers are staggering. $20 billion is a lot of money. Are you going
to get any help from Republicans on this at all? Because this is somewhat
of an economic populous move, no question about it.

SANDERS: Well, I surely hope so. And Ed, your point about what they will
be saying about high tax rates is exactly correct. Nominally on paper,
corporate tax rates are 35 percent. The last study that I saw in 2010, the
effective tax rate was 12.6 percent, that`s what they really pay. And as I
mentioned, one out of four companies pays zero in taxes.

Look, these guys will give any excuse in the world to save a nickel and
double cross the American people. And we`ve got to be firm on that.

SCHULTZ: Senator, I want to ...

SANDERS: The two things we got to do is -- yeah, go ahead. I`m sorry Ed.

SCHULTZ: Well -- no, the two things you`re going to do, go ahead, I didn`t
mean to interrupt. Go ahead.

SANDERS: All right, number one, if you`re going to stash your money in a
tax saving, it ain`t going to work, you`re going to have to pay taxes on
your profit. Number two, if you want to go to Switzerland and you want to
go to the UK, you are not going to bid on contracts with the United States
government. That`s what happens if you`re a deserter.

SCHULTZ: OK. All right. Senator, I want to switch subjects to the
Veterans Affairs Committee which you chair that committee. This was a huge
story not long ago with the story that unfolded in Arizona. Why can`t
Congress get something done on this? What`s the holdup? And it doesn`t
sound like anything is going to get done with the latest setback. Tell us
about it.

SANDERS: Well Ed, we are working really, really hard on this. As we
speak, my staff is working with the Republican staff to see if we can
hammer out something in the remaining few days before the August break.

Here`s the issue. We have enormous needs in the VA. And the reason we
have these long wait lines in Arizona or in elsewhere has a lot to do with
the fact that we don`t have enough doctors, we don`t have enough nurses, we
don`t have enough space in many cases, we don`t have the medical personnel
we should.

So what I am fighting for is to make sure that the VA has the resources
that it needs to deal with the fact that at the last five years, some two
million more veterans have come in to the system, many of them with very
serious problems like, PTSD and TBI, plus the fact that we have older
population from World War II, Korea and Vietnam who need a lot of help as

So if we are serious about providing the help that our veterans need, we`ve
got to do that in addition to emergency health, to make sure that we deal
with the waiting lines immediately to some private care.

SCHULTZ: And of course, a story that we`re seeing now, 116 Democrats have
signed on an appeal to stay in session until something gets done. You
know, we can`t get anything done on immigration, nothing on minimum wage
and even with our veterans who have served this country, it can`t move the
Congress closer together to get something done. I mean, Senator, what does
that say to the state of our government?

SANDERS: Well, it says that we are dysfunctional, that`s what it says.
People have put their lives on the line to defend this country and many of
them have come back hurt, physically or mentally and we have an absolute
moral obligation to say, number one, "This is a cost of war." You know,
it`s not just planes and tanks and guns that are a cost of war. The cost
of war is taking care of those people who have been hurt in that war. And
if we don`t have the money to take care of our veterans, then you should
not be sending them off to war in the first place.

So right now, I got to tell you Ed, we are working really, really hard to
see if we can come up with some ...


SANDERS: ... compromise between the House Bill and the Senate Bill. And I
hope from the bottom of my heart, that we`ll be able to do that.

SCHULTZ: Senator Bernie Sanders with us tonight on the Ed Show. Senator,
thanks so much for joining us. Appreciate your time.

Coming up, the outlook for 2016 cloudy with a chance of Michele Bachmann.
The representative said she hasn`t ruled out running for president. Oh
boy, Lionel joins me, coming up, stay with us.


SCHULTZ: And in Pretenders tonight, legitimate shame, Todd Akin. Two
years ago, Todd Akin said some cases of rape just don`t count.


CHARLES JACO: If an abortion could be considered in the case of, say, a
tubal pregnancy or something like that, what about in the case of rape?

TODD AKIN: If it`s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to
shut that whole thing down.


SCHULTZ: Todd Akin lost his senate race and all credibility, now he`s
using the most disgraceful moment in his career to fuel the wambulance.


AKIN: Instead of dealing with the thought or the issue or the question at
hand, instead what you do is you try to destroy their character, you make
fun of them and you don`t deal with the question at hand, but you simply
say, "Look at this person." And there, and then you label them, they`re
sexist or they`re racist or they`re these. And you put labels on then. It
gave the Democrats an opportunity to try to make fun of me.


SCHULTZ: Todd Akin says exposing his grotesque view was unfair. He`s got
it wrong. Putting Todd Akin in charge of decisions about a woman`s health
would be really unfair.

If Todd Akin believes he`s a legitimate victim, he can keep on pretending.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. This is the story for the folks who
take a shower after work. Female candidates could control the headlines in
the 2016 presidential race. Elizabeth Warren says she won`t be one of

Calls for Warren to run for the Democratic nomination reached a fever pitch
last week at the Netroots convention in Detroit. She was campaigning on
behalf of senate candidates around the country. Warren told the Boston
Globe, "I`m going to give you the same answer I have given you many times,
there is no wiggle room. I am not running for president. No means no."

That`s pretty absolute. On the flip side, soon to be ex-Minnesota
Congresswoman Michele Bachmann isn`t ready to quit being a politician yet.
The 2012 Republican presidential candidate told RealClearPolitics on
Tuesday, she is considering a second White House run. A potential
presidential run by Bachmann will likely bring about more guffs like this.


MICHELE BACHMANN: Let`s repeal this failure before it literally kills
women, kills children, kills senior citizens, let`s not do that. Let`s
love people.

You may have heard that there`s a breaking at the British embassy and the
British had to pull their people out. That`s exactly what I would do. We
wouldn`t have an American embassy in Iran.

We heard from Russia, China, South America or South Africa, Brazil, India.
We`ve heard from the number that the country is calling -- France calling
for this new expansion of the International Monetary Fund for moving the
dollar at the standard of exchange.


SCHULTZ: Run Michele run, that`s all I can say. It`d be good for all of

Let`s turn to Lionel, New York television legal commentator and news
decoder. As we see the list of candidates starting to grow a little bit,
topic A, Michele Bachmann, what`s your reaction to her threat for running

LIONEL, LEGAL COMMENTATOR: Ed, I know this is not the way to look at
politics as an American who loves his country as do you. But we haven`t
had dare I say a nuclear presidency in a while. Nobody runs in a TV
anymore and says, "What`s he going to say today?" Let`s face it, President
Obama, his policies are one thing but he never makes a guff.

Ed, the moment that Michele Bachmann gave me that moment of limpidity,
pellucidity, that light, whatever you like, I think we`re on to something,
is when she was speaking in Waterloo, Iowa. Ed, as you know she`s from
there, it was little bit about the terrain, on Fox News no less. And she
said, "Waterloo, Iowa, the home, John Wayne, John Wayne, the great
American, John Wayne," and she was partly right. Still home of John Wayne
Gacy. Winterset, Iowa of course is the home of John Wayne, the Duke.

You know Ed, it`s that kind of confusion, North America, South America,
what`s the difference. So as a person who loves the great guff, it --
granted, it would be -- maybe the ruination of the free world as we know it
but just think of the fun that we`ll have. But Elizabeth Warren, I love
her Ed. I`m sorry.

Do you know her -- You remember what her first bill was, trying to get the
fed to basically give the same rate for student loans, a generation that`s
a ...


LIONEL: ... trillion dollars in debt, basically 0.75, they`re looking at
raising the (inaudible), nine times, in her very first bill, not some teach
(ph) everything and she`s not going to what?

SCHULTZ: I`d tell you, there`s a lot of people Lionel, who were
disappointed when they heard Warren say that, last week, no means no,
there`s no ...

LIONEL: Disappointed.

SCHULTZ: . wiggle room there. But let`s get back to Bachmann for just a
moment. Do you think there`s any way that we could motivate Sarah Palin
and Michele Bachmann somehow orchestrate this to have that be the super

LIONEL: Again, this is terrible. The American (inaudible) says no. But
the media person says -- Ed, imagine this, just think thought experiment, a
debate, a debate. I guarantee you, Vince McMahon, WWE, the birth of Little
Ricky, the end of Mash, nothing in television history could in anyway rival
a Sarah Palin-Michele Bachmann debate, no holds barred in the Octagon,
think about that. It`s heaven.

But then again, I`m abnegating any responsibility that I have as a
sanctioned feeling American. My country will go down in flames but we`ll
sure have a good time laughing about it.

SCHULTZ: Well, OK, now on the serious end of it .


SCHULTZ: .if Michele Bachmann, is she wasting the Republican Party`s time
by thinking about running again? I mean, who would support her?

LIONEL: Who is running the Republican Party? Who is -- This is a
fractionalized mess. I mean, let`s just put our hats on. If we were to
advice them, you`ve got tea party, you`ve paleoconservatives,
neoconservatives, ulta-conservatives, religious right, religious whatever
factions of this all good people mind you, then you have a fight within it.
You have the Rand Paul contingent, you have the Cruz contingent, you got
the Rick Perry and don`t count Rick Perry out or Mitt Romney, it`s a, dare
I say a slumgullion, a hodgepodge ...

SCHULTZ: So you just ...

LIONEL: ... political gumbo.

SCHULTZ: You just gave six different conventions we`re going to have to
cover. I don`t know how that`s going to ...

LIONEL: All of them ...

SCHULTZ: ... that`s going to work.

LIONEL: All of them with different agendas but the shining light Ed,
Michele Bachmann.

SCHULTZ: All right.

LIONEL: Leading us from the (inaudible).

SCHULTZ: Lionel, good to have you with us on this Friday. Thanks for your
time .

LIONEL: I love you Ed.

SCHULTZ: . tonight. We`ll do it again for sure.

That`s the ED Show. I`m Ed Schultz. Politics Nation with Reverend Al
Sharpton starts right now.


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