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The Ed Show for Monday, August 18th, 2014

Read the transcript to the Monday show

August 18, 2014

Guest: Jessie Jackson, Emanuel Cleaver, Maria Chappelle-Nadal, Bernie
Sanders, Mike Papantonio

ED SCHULTZ, THE ED SHOW HOST: Live from New York. Let`s get to work.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The local acting officials tonight just called on me to
put a curfew in place so we could guarantee peace.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A group of protesters defying a new overnight curfew.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t believe that that`s fair.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Missouri`s governor orders the National Guard to

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I believe that that`s indicative of how we`re being
dealt with.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ferguson officials postponed the first day of school
for the second time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After talking to General Holder, I`ve appreciated them
sending in 40 additional FBI agents.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This case has suffered from a lack of transparency.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The unarmed teen was shot at least six times.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why would he be shot at the very top of his head?

CAPT. RON JOHNSON, MISSOURI HIGHWAY PATROL: I wear this uniform and I just
stand up here and say that I`m sorry.


SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight folks. Thanks for watching.

We start this evening with the unstable and volatile situation in Ferguson,
Missouri. Just moments ago, President Obama finished addressing the
ongoing crisis in that Missouri town. The president said the Department of
Justice has opened their own investigation into the death of Michael Brown.


BARACK OBAMA, CURRENT U.S. PRESIDENT: The Justice Department has opened an
independent, federal, civil rights investigation into the death of Michael
Brown. They are on the ground and along with the FBI, they are devoting
substantial resources to that investigation.

The attorney general himself will be traveling to Ferguson on Wednesday to
meet with the FBI agents and DOJ personnel conducting the federal criminal
investigation and he will receive an update from them on their progress.
He will also be meeting with other leaders in the community who supported
so critical to bringing about peace and calm in Ferguson.


SCHULTZ: President Obama went on to call for a peaceful protest in


OBAMA: Well, I understand the passions and the anger that arise over the
death of Michael Brown, giving into that anger by looting, or carrying guns
and even attacking the police only deserves to raise tensions and start
chaos. It undermines rather than advancing justice.

Let me also be clear that our constitutional rights to speak freely, to
assemble and to report in the press must be vigilantly safe-guarded
especially in moments like these. There`s no excuse for excessive force by
police or any action that denies people the right to protest peacefully.


SCHULTZ: Earlier today, Missouri Gov. Jay Nixon lifted the midnight curfew
that has been in effect for several days for Ferguson. The governor also
issued an order to deploy the State National Guard to Ferguson.

This afternoon, the state highway patrol and National Guard briefed the
public on their plans for tonight.


RONALD REPLOGLE, MISSOURI HIGHWAY PATROL: The guard`s mission here will be
limited in scope and they will be tasked for protecting the unified command
center that we`re now standing. That will free up law enforcement
resources to protect the peaceful protesters, the citizens of Ferguson and
their property.

peaceful protest will be allowed in the city of Ferguson. We will not
allow vandals, criminal elements to impact the safety and security of this

GEN. GREG MASON, MISSOURI NATIONAL GUARD: We have well-trained and well-
seasoned soldiers that`ll be assigned to protect the joint command head
quarters here. Our soldiers have been well-trained and have seen --
overseen many missions of state response over the years and they`re well
equipped to handle this mission well resourced.


SCHULTZ: President Obama told Governor Nixon the use of the state National
Guard should be limited and appropriate in manner. All these follows in
tense clashes between police and protesters on Sunday night after a new
independent autopsy of Brown`s body was released. The new autopsy was
commissioned by the Brown family.

Last night, mark the most intense night of clashes between police and
protesters so far. Businesses were looted, Molotov cocktails were thrown
at police, teargas was fired at protesters and at least seven people were


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The most intense night of violence and confrontation on
the streets of Ferguson yet.

There are shootings, fire bombs, businesses looted and under attack.
Multiple simultaneous flashpoints across this already battered embassy`s
city. Heavily armed SWAT and tactical units back on the streets with a
huge display of fire power. Crowds of angry protesters stood their ground.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why do you still have it?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because, this was a murderer. He`s planning to
speak. His hands were up when he got shot. I can feel -- I don`t .

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hang on. Hang on, sir. Hang on. Hang on.
Something`s happening.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Throughout Sunday, attempts to head off the violence
calls for peace and unity at this emotional service for the parents of
Michael Brown. The man in charge of security offered this.

JOHNSON: I`m sorry. I wear this uniform and I`ll just stand up here and
say that I`m sorry

I love you. I stand tall with you and I`ll see you out there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hours later, combat on the streets.


SCHULTZ: Protesters say their constitutional right to gather was being
violated by the midnight curfew.

The independent autopsy of Brown`s body has no doubt increased tensions in
Ferguson. It reveals Brown was shot at least six times including twice in
the head. The head shots were the fatal wounds. The professor who
performed the independent autopsy said it`s too early to know exactly what
happened when Brown was shot.


SEAN PARCELLS, WORKED ON BROWN`S AUTOPSY: The question asked to us was,
"Could that wound occurred from him walking away and then he turns around?"
It`s consistent with that. However, understand too that while the shot
could have come from the back because if I`m standing here, walking along
and get shot from that direction, you see I pull my arm up in that same
general area.

The arm is a very mobile part of your body. So, it also could`ve occurred
when he was putting his hands up. So, I`ve put my hands up and you see
where that wound is at. It could have happened if he put his arms across
in a defensive manner. We don`t know and we still have to look at other
aspects of this investigation before we can really start piecing things


SCHULTZ: On the other hand, Brown family Attorney Benjamin Crump said that
this autopsy proves witness accounts of the shooting were true.


autopsy tell us? It verifies that the witness accounts were true, that he
was shot multiple times and you all have reported a minute on witnesses
accounts when they said his hands was up, that is in there. When they
talked about the ways it happened, it`s in there.


SCHULTZ: The federal government is also planning to carry out a third
autopsy on Brown`s body.

Earlier today, President Obama was briefed on the evolving situation in
Ferguson by Attorney General Eric Holder. And the president has been
following the unrest in Ferguson very closely.

Meanwhile, many are calling for charges to be brought against the officer
who was involved in the shooting of Michael Brown.

Earlier today, Brown`s mother called for Officer Darren Wilson to be held


LESLEY MCSPADDEN, MICHAEL BROWN`S MOTHER: And what is justice to you? I`m
being fair. Arresting this man and making him accountable for his actions.


SCHULTZ: Some local politicians are also calling for action.

Missouri State Sen. Maria Chappelle-Nadal said Officer Wilson should be put
in jail today.


transparent investigation and we want to make sure there`s a grand jury and
there is an indictment. And the one thing that would make this community
certain that there is transparency in this process is if this police
officer Darren Wilson was put in jail right now, today. There are
witnesses that - that`s all you need, our witnesses so that he can be
arrested and put in jail then they will know that there is transparency.


SCHULTZ: So, what do we have at this hour? The president of the United
States has spoken to the American people. The president of the United
States has been on record of what he thinks of the looting that is taking
place. And the president of the United States has injected himself into
this through the attorney general who is going to be on the scene in
Missouri. All good moves.

Now, let me tell you the bad move. What in the world would provoke the
governor of a state to throw the state National Guard into the mix when
it`s been one night after another of nothing but distrust and unrest in a
community that has now seen crime right out on the streets? It makes no
sense. He`s asking for another Kent State. And the bottom line here is
that State Governor Nixon has not been down into that community and talk to
those people face to face at any time as of late since this shooting took

So now, the question is how do we defuse this? Every time a curfew, as I
saw it, it was nothing but a challenge to these protesters and now you`re
going to put the state National Guard there, a show of more force? No.
Back off the National Guard, back off the curfew and start listening to
these folks and maybe the crimes won`t be committed. These people don`t
want to see a show of force; they want to see a show of justice. The
president made the right moves today, the governor has not done too many
things correctly since all of this unfolded.

For more, let me bring in Reverend Jesse Jackson, President of Rainbow/Push
Coalition who has spent time down in Ferguson and joins us tonight from
Ferguson Missouri.

Reverend, good to have you with us. You have seen a lot of protest and a
lot of unrest in your career in your life time. I want you thoughts
tonight on the state National Guard being called out in a situation that
seems to be very volatile. And at this hour, we really don`t know what`s
going to unfold tonight. Reverend, your thoughts.

missteps by the law officers. One was bringing the tanks and that was over
appealed, the next they have no one that was on the protection, then the
curfew and now, the National Guard. The National Guard, they`re here, they
have another cover of falls protection but does not deal with the
underlying cause of the problem.

It`s a step (ph), it does not addressed a source (ph). The fact is Michael
was shot and killed in his own neighborhood at 2:30 on the last Saturday
afternoon and the killer have not yet -- even a suspect for seven days,
they will not revealing his name and then found it. They`ve revealed his
name and the autopsy of Michael is out now. He died violently and the
killer has not even yet a suspect, not to mention tried.

SCHULTZ: Reverend, with the autopsy being released today, the private
autopsy, commissioned by the family and the fact that the wheels of justice
seemed to be moving pretty slow. The prosecutor down there has not even
going in contact in any of the witnesses to my knowledge. What`s wrong
with this? Why is it taking so long to move the wheels of justice in your

JACKSON: Well, just to lay it of course as justice denied and the court is
slow moving adds to the suspense and adds to the mistrust. Of course, it
adds to the seven percent African-American and 56 policemen, only three are
African-American versus no firearm on here, no blacks from the school
board, no blacks on the city council. So, they kind of lock out of their
own government and feel they break sense of isolation, Ed, and everything
that`s happened has added to the distrust.

And when President Obama weighed on this today, he`s weighing in Mr. Holder
coming in which is in respect to him because I really think that this
Ferguson is a metaphor for abandoning the urban America. We better put the
fire right here before it spreads.

SCHULTZ: Well, the issue at this hour is how to handle tonight? The
curfew has been lifted. Was that the right thing to do?

JACKSON: Well, I think it was the right thing to do and we have now some
people who stepped out of line and threw a Molotov cocktail all through
unnecessary to throw a teargas bomb. They should be dealt with
individually but sweeping justice becomes unjust. The problem here, Ed, is
that when the law becomes lawless, you have chaos and the law sets some
moral authority that`s trying to encompass with extra strength and people
will defy it before they are able to submit to it.

I hope that the National Guard of the United States that people are not
going to march because -- there will be marches until this police is
brought to justice, until there`s a reassessment from this police
department. You have, the police department and the fire department have
federal funds and they have equal to employment and contract standards to
uphold and they must uphold laws of government standards if they`re to
accept that money.

SCHULTZ: Reverend, looking at this situation right now as it stands, have
you spoken directly with the protesters or any of them who have been
involved in any of the looting or have you -- do you know what these people
want? Have you visited with them directly?

JACKSON: I`ve talked to Mrs. Brown that they have met with protesters and
she just answered them. I said to them, "You guys should focus your
energy. If they put on 5,000 new voters and the eligible serve
(inaudible). They can elect the mayor who applause police and fire chief.
They can elect judges. This group unlike (inaudible) in a material
neighbor killed, the killers walk before the years then they (inaudible).
This could in fact has the power to trash on their political situation.
That must be as a protest in massive sustained of voter registration with
an agenda, that changed us and they have the numbers to do it.

SCHULTZ: OK. Reverend Jesse Jackson in Ferguson, Missouri tonight with us
on the Ed Show, I appreciate your time, sir. Thanks so much.

Let me bring in Congressman Emanuel Cleaver of Missouri. Congressman, good
to have you with us tonight.

REP. EMANUEL CLEAVER, (D) MISSOURI: Good to be with you, Ed.

SCHULTZ: Your thoughts on the last hour of news that has come out, the
president has spoken to this situation and he`s also sending Attorney
General Eric Holder, although the state National Guard has been called in
by the governor. What do you make of all of this unfolding?

CLEAVER: Well, I think, I associate myself with the comments that were
made by Reverend Jackson.

I do think that it is important for General Holder to come into Ferguson
and into the state. Ed, the fact that we haven`t heard from the prosecutor
is not as troublesome as it would be if we had heard from him. I think
that it is important for the nation to know that the people of Ferguson had
absolutely no confidence in the police chief, the police department or the
prosecutor and those entities have created this atmosphere. They`re the
ones who`ve caused the trust level to drop and eventually completely

So, I think tonight, we need to keep in mind that if you allow peaceful
protest, you won`t have blusterous protest. And so we got to have people
who can function between that line and it`s also important to know that
only about a half of percent, one percent, I`ve been in the crowd and I can
tell you most of those people are hardworking, decent Americans who pay
taxes and try to live by the rules. But there are people who are even
coming in from outside of Ferguson who are coming in to exploit the
situation. And when you have all the militarization that we have seen, it
provides the perfect cover and it also causes people to be a little less
likely or inclined .


CLEAVER: . to talk to a person who`s about to do something wrong.

SCHULTZ: So, with that Congressman, what do you think is the best way to
restore the peace and order in Ferguson starting tonight?

CLEAVER: Well, I think we`re going to have to make sure that the National
Guard and as I understand the National Guard are not coming in with arms.
They`re coming in to help with the crowd control. So, I think that that`s
good but I think we`re going to have to get the police, the county police
department to start backing up. If the crowd is able to just protest,
they`re generally finished protesting and go home but if you start, you
know, trying to point machine guns at the crowds, you`re going to have a
problem and that`s what happened for the last seven days now. It can`t go
on. Reverend Jackson is right or I think it`s going to erupt in another

SCHULTZ: Well, and that`s my position on this. Why inflame it (ph) by
bringing in another show of force to the National Guard? You say that the
National Guard there is going to be involved in crowd control, are they
going to be unarmed? Probably not. I mean, every time that there`s --
there was the curfew and now, there`s the National Guard but every single
time that there has been a show of force, the crowd has pushed back.

These people it seems to me want to be heard and the reason why they`re not
being heard is because why, because the wheels of justice move slowly. I
don`t hear anybody asking the crowd, "Please settle down. Don`t -- Monitor
your neighborhood. Make sure this doesn`t happen." And I guess I`m kind
of disappointed in the leadership down there that they think a show of
force is the best way to do it.

At Kent State University on May fourth back in 1970, they thought a show of
force was going to be the right way to turn back anti-war protesters and in
about 13 seconds, four people were dead. I mean .

CLEAVER: I remember.

SCHULTZ: . it can spiral out of control so fast. So, do the police need
that much more help? We`ve seen their equipment. So now, they need more
personnel to handle what is described to be a very few amount of people
that are causing all these trouble?

CLEAVER: Well, the people want to see fairness and not force. And the
reason I think that the governor did what he did was because the police
department -- I don`t think the people around the country understand this
so I`m going to try to say it clearly. The police department of Ferguson
is inept and so, you cannot leave the law enforcement as relates to the
protest to them. They`re inept. They have all these shiny military things
in the garage and they want to bring them out and play with them.


JACKSON: They have no reason to have that equipment. But -- So, we can`t
trust the local police, so the governor has to do something and I`m so
pleased that 40 new FBI agents are coming in.

And let me just tell you this quickly. If there is some kind of report
coming out on what happened, if it comes from the prosecutor or the inept
police chief, "Sir, we ." It is scary. It`s got to come from the AG .


CLEAVER: . or the justice department.

SHCULTZ: All right, Congressman Emanuel Cleaver, good to have you with us
tonight. I appreciate your time. Thank you so much.

Coming up, members of the Ferguson community come forward to express their
concern over policing.

But first, the preliminary autopsy of Michael Brown sheds new light on the
case. Missouri State Senator Maria Chappelle-Nadal joins us next. Stay
with us.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. Thanks for watching tonight. We`re
now getting a clearer look at what happen to Michael Brown. The
preliminary findings of an autopsy commissioned by Browns family were
released last night.

Now, the report shows Brown was shot at least six times with four bullets
striking him in the hand and arm and two in the head. All of the bullets
were fired into the front of Brown`s body. One of the bullets entered
above the right eyebrow, exited through the jaw and reentered in his
collarbone. Another struck Brown at the top of his head which suggest he
might have been bending over at the time. The independent autopsy also
reported the bullet struck his brain.

Dr. Michael Baden who conducted the autopsy suggests this shot was the shot
that killed Michael Brown. Dr. Baden said that there was no evidence of a
struggle between Brown and Police Officer Darrel Wilson. The reports there
-- he reports that there was no gun powder residue on Brown`s body
indicating the shots were not fired at close range.

This is one of three autopsies expected to be released. The family chose
to conduct their own autopsy in addition to the one being conducted by
local officials. The full results of the St. Louis County medical
examiner`s autopsy have yet to be released. On Sunday, Attorney General
Eric Holder ordered a federal autopsy would be conducted as well.

Joining me now is Missouri State Senator Maria Chappelle-Nadal. She joins
us from Ferguson tonight. Senator, I appreciate your time here.

What -- And you have been on the ground, your visiting with your
constituents, I know all day visited with you earlier today. What has the
community response been to the autopsy results that were released and the
news came out this morning at the press conference?

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: Well, I just have to tell you, Ed, that the community
knew that there several shots that were fired and now this autopsy actually
proves that at least six shots were fired to Michael Brown. And so, people
are still upset about this and they`re looking for more information in this
investigation at this time.

SCHULTZ: Does this make the case for Officer Wilson to be arrested as you
see it?



CHAPPELLE-NADAL: Can you repeat yourself?

SCHULTZ: Does this autopsy, in your opinion, make the case for the officer
in question to be arrested?

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: Well, I do have to tell you looking at the autopsy report
last evening, it looks like Michael Brown was just killed. It was an
assassination and many of the community members are waiting to -- for this
police officer to be arrested. They are waiting for a grand jury and an
indictment. And so until that happens, I still see unrest and many of the
people want to continue to protest in peace.

SCHULTZ: So, you think that there will be unrest until there is a legal
action, taken against the shooter?

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: Yes. There must be an arrest. I`m not an attorney, Ed,
but I do have to tell you, there are some basic elements that are already
out in the public, there are witnesses who saw this murder and it was
absolutely callus (ph). And there -- My constituents frankly are still
upset that this officer is on paid leave. I mean, if it was anything --
any other person as my constituents have said today, if it was a black man
who shot another man, they would have already been in jail by now.

And they want to know why is this officer on paid leave and at the same
time he`s not in jail? He`s basically watching your show tonight, Ed.

SCHULTZ: What is your reaction, Senator, to the news that Governor Jay
Nixon has called in the state Missouri National Guard? Was that the
correct move in your opinion?

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: Well, I have to tell you that the governor has mismanaged
this entire situation from the very beginning. I will reiterate that he`s
still not been to ground zero. This is day 10 since Michael Brown was
killed. He has not been at ground zero where the people are affected, are
protesting in peace. And so, because he doesn`t have that connection to
the people who have been impacted the most, he doesn`t understand what
should happen. And so, all of his logistics are off and that`s why you
have seen many of us, including myself be victims of tear gassing.

And it`s unfortunate but we do need order. I will say that right now. We
have some elements that are coming into this community that are not from
this community. I heard today that we have anarchists who are interested
in violent action and they`re just a few people, not the majority of
protesters who have been just trying to exercise their first amendment

And I have to tell you, our First Amendment Right has been taken. As a
state senator, my First Amendment Right has been taken in the last 10 days.
And I certainly don`t want 17 and 18-year-olds to be the victim of not
having the right to assemble in peace and speak their mind.

SCHULTZ: Senator, do you think that the tear gassing that has taken place
was necessary?

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: Absolutely not. I have to tell you, there is a woman who
is six months pregnant, who is forced to the ground, face down, the night
that we were tear gassed, a week ago from today. When we were on a one-way
street, the St Louis County police officers fired tear gas at us for three
hours, for three hours and we couldn`t breath whatsoever. The 150 or so
young people that I was with were very upset and very scared. I felt very
safe with them the entire time and none of us could understand why St.
Louis County police officers were spraying tear gas at us .


CHAPPELLE-NADAL: . for three hours.

SCHULTZ: So, Senator, I`ll ask you before I let you go here. What calms
this crowd? An arrest? The president spoke today. He`s sending the
attorney general down to Ferguson. What calms the people so we don`t see
violence tonight?

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: Well, let me tell you. What will calm the citizens of
the 14th senate district is one, an arrest of Darren Wilson. Also, he
needs not to get paid. He`s getting paid right now. He`s on paid leave.
If he didn`t have the paid leave, they would be very happy with that. That
would create calm. Next, they want an indictment. And that is very
important. But we have to make sure that the investigation is not tampered
with and there are no biases that are entered into this entire process.

We just want to make sure everything is clean and the community sees
everything for what it is and that is the truth. We want to know what the
truth is. And all of these young people that I am with every single day,
Ed, I have to tell you, some of them, they are willing to die, they are
amazed that they made it to 21 years old. There is a man today that I saw
in the streets, at the QT and he said, "I am ready to die right now. It`s
amazing that I made it here."

Another young man, a week ago from yesterday said, "I`m ready to die." You
know, if Michael Brown is going to die, you know, it could have been me.
And I`m ready to die right now for justice. But what my job is to redirect
that energy so that we can have outcomes and action so this will never
occur anymore. There`s only been one murder in Ferguson this year and that
is the death of Michael Brown.

This is a very peaceful community with institutional racism in the police
department. But we`re seeking justice, Ed, and we want to make sure that
the investigation is not tampered with, and we want to make sure there is a
conviction and we also want to make sure that this does not occur again .


CHAPPELLE-NADAL: . and that we have the resources available to us, so that
we don`t have to question the police officers in Ferguson or St. Louise

SCHULTZ: All right. Missouri State Senator Maria Chappelle-Nadal, I
appreciate your time tonight. Thanks so much for joining us.


SCHULTZ: Senator Bernie Sanders joins me next to discuss over policing in

But next, I`m taking your questions, Ask Ed Live. Next here in the Ed
Show, we`ll be right back.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back the Ed Show. Love hearing from our viewers, I
appreciate your questions in our Ask Ed Live segment tonight.

Our first question comes from Twitter user Duchess, "Is it realistic to
think that the tragedy of Michael Brown will change anything in our

Well, it`ll change the conversation because the conversation will
intensify. It will focus more on a number of different problems that may
have led to this. But as far as changing anything, right now, immediately?
Probably not, unfortunately. I don`t think police operations are going to
be changing across the nation dealing with communities right away. I think
there`ll be a discussion about it but we got a long way to go before we
really change and a lot of discussion has to take place.

Lots more coming up on the Ed Show, stay with us.

Market Wrap.

The Dow surged to 175 point, the S&P added 16 and the Nasdaq gained 43

Well, U.S. Homebuilder Conference hitting seven-month high in August. This
is following the mortgage prices to improve the outlook for home sales.

Gold dropped nearly $7 to settle just below $1,300 an ounce.

And starting this month through the holidays, Target will extend its store
hours to 11 p.m. or 12 midnight at more than of its 1,800 U.S. stores.

That`s it from CNBC, we`re first in business worldwide.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. Federal officials are reconsidering
the practice of sending surplus military equipment to civilian police
departments across the country.

The violence in Ferguson, Missouri is bringing the issue front and center.
Today, FBI agents were on the ground, knocking on doors and interviewing
citizens around the neighborhood where unarmed 18-year-old Michael Brown
lived and was shot by a police on August 9th.

Images of heavily armed police, snipers aimed on protesters and tear gas
plumes have dominated the media for more than a week since the shooting.

Earlier today, Missouri State National Guard was deployed to Ferguson. On
Sunday, Governor Jay Nixon issued an executive order declaring a state of
emergency. The curfew that was previously put in place has been lifted for
tonight. The executive order fanned the flames of unrest on the ground
Sunday evening.


JOHNSON: Molotov cocktails were thrown, there were shootings, looting,
vandalism and other acts of violence that clearly appear not to have been
spontaneous or premeditated criminal acts designed to damage property, to
hurt people and provoke a response.


SCHULTZ: Against the hostile backdrop, Attorney General Eric Holder said
police and citizens need to restore calm. Eric Holder was at the White
House earlier today to hollow (ph) with President Obama about the rapidly
evolving situation, he will visit Ferguson, Missouri later this week.

The last hour during a news conference, President Obama was asked about
local police being armed with military weapons.


OBAMA: Yeah, there is a big difference between our military and our local
law enforcement and we don`t want those lines blurred. That would be
contrary to our traditions. And I think that there will be some bipartisan
interest in reexamining some of those programs.


SCHULTZ: Many other lawmakers are coming forward to express concern.
Missouri Senator Claire McCaskill said that police response in Ferguson
have become the problem instead of the solution. Congressman Hank Johnson
of Georgia said that he will introduce legislation to curve the trend of
arming police with military weapons.

A report by the American Civil Liberties Union found the amount of goods
transferred through the military surplus program rose in value from $1
million in 1990 to nearly $450 million in 2013. With officers using
equipment designed for the battlefield on city streets, the citizens of
Ferguson feel like they`re being treated like the enemies.

Senator Bernie Sanders is calling for a stop to it. He recently posted on
Facebook, "The shooting of an unarmed person is unacceptable. I support
calls for a thorough federal investigation. In the meantime, people have a
right to peacefully protest. Police must be seen as part of the community
and not an occupying force." And Senator Sanders joins me tonight here on
the Ed Show. Senator, I appreciate your time.

Police are treating residents of Ferguson like they`re the enemy. That`s
the comments that`s coming back to us here. How can this dynamic be
changed when there is such a show of brute force and of course the State
National Guard has been called out another show of force? What about all
this, Senator?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (D) VERMONT: Well, Ed, if there`s any silver lining
in the tragedy of Ferguson is that I hope we learn some very important
lessons. When I was a mayor of Burlington, Vermont and all over this
country, what mayors are trying to do is develop community-based policing,
where police officers are seen as part of the neighborhood, they know
people in the neighborhood, they are trusted by people in the neighborhood.

When you see the kind of force that`s been used in Ferguson, it really does
make an appeal that the police department there is an occupying army in a
hostile territory and that is absolutely not what we want to see in the
United States. So, I think we`ve got to rethink a lot of this heavy
equipment that police departments around the country are utilizing.

Second point, Ed .


SANDERS: . I -- I`m sorry, go ahead.

SCHULTZ: Well, no, your second point is, sir?

SANDERS: The second point is I hope that what Ferguson teaches us is that
not only the violence being perpetrated against young black men but also
the economic crises facing black youth in this country.

Ed, youth unemployment in America is tragically high, it is 20 percent.
African-American youth unemployment is 35 percent. In St Louis area, it is
significantly higher than that. And if we are going to address the issue
of crime in low-income areas and in African-American areas, it might be a
good idea that instead of putting heavy equipment into police departments
on those areas, we start creating jobs for the kids there who desperately
need them.

SCHULTZ: Senator, what about the equipment. The president said that this
maybe addressed by Congress on a bipartisan level. But the Department of
Homeland Security recently came out with a report saying that the biggest
threat to our security is here within our own borders. There`s a lot of
anti-government groups that have propped up in this country, hate groups
that have propped up in this country and law enforcement in many respects
feels pretty much outgunned and they want to be prepared. Is it the
equipment or is it the use of the equipment that`s the issue in your

SANDERS: I think it`s the latter end. Look, clearly, you know, police
departments all over this country had very difficult times dealing with
drug pushers and people who are very well off. And we want to make sure
that our police department has the effective tools and equipment to combat
those threats.

But on the other hand, I do not think you need tanks and heavy military
looking equipment in low income communities in America. I think that it
essentially makes a difficult situation, a dangerous situation much more
provocative and much more difficult. Again, police departments should not
be perceived as occupying ominous (ph). So, I think this is an issue along
with the economic issue of having to create jobs for our young people that
Congress should be addressing when we return.

SCHULTZ: Does the curfew block the citizen`s right to peaceful protest?
What do you think?

SANDERS: Well, of course it does, on some circumstances it may be a valid
response. I don`t know enough to tell you about the circumstance in

SCHULTZ: You would be in favor of reducing the amount of equipment and the
use of this military equipment that we have seen?

SANDERS: I think I would be absolutely in favor of taking a hard, hard
look at that program. I don`t know that you could make 100 percent
generalization but I do not want to see communities and small towns and
small cities all over America have heavy equipment which makes people in
those communities just feel like they are an enemy. That I think is not

SCHULTZ: Senator Bernie Sanders, good to have you with us tonight, sir.
Thank you so much for joining us on the Ed Show.

Ferguson residents call for an arrest of an officer who shot and killed
Michael Brown. Mike Papantonio, America`s lawyer joins us.


SCHULTZ: The citizens of Ferguson, Missouri are marching in the street
right now. They`re demanding justice for Michael Brown.

Coming up on the Ed Show, we`ll discuss the fallout for the officer
involved in the wheels of justice, next. Keep it right here.



GOV. JAY NIXON, (D) MISSOURI: This challenging time, it is nice to have
veterans of law enforcement working at a coordinated fashion .

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Excuse me, Governor. You need to charge that police
with murder. That will bring peace to this community.

It doesn`t take that long for an investigation.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show.

That`s Missouri Governor Jay Nixon when he was interrupted during
Saturday`s press conference by citizens calling for the arrest of the
officer who shot and killed Michael Brown.

It took six days for the Ferguson Police Department to release the name of
the officer, six-year veteran Darren Wilson was identified Friday. NBC
news has confirmed these photos show the Officer Wilson receiving a
commendation award from the Ferguson Police Department back in February of
this year. The 28-year-old had no prior complaints against him and his
current whereabouts unknown.

Neighbors say the officer and his family left his residence in Crestwood,
Missouri shortly before his name was released to the public. Wilson is
currently on paid administrative leave which still doesn`t sit very well
with some members of the community.

Joining me tonight to sort this all out legally Ring of Fire radio host and
America`s attorney Mike Papantonio, Former President of the National Trial
Lawyers Association. Mike, good to have you with us tonight.

At this point, now that the autopsy has been released, the private autopsy,
and I would imagine that there wouldn`t be too much difference between that
one and the others, maybe there will -- it will be. But what would prevent
the officer in question from being arrested at this hour?

MIKE PAPANTONIO, RING OF FIRE RADIO: Well, I mean as you point out, the
best autopsy information available at this point comes from a remarkably
experienced New York Chief medical examiner. This is a guy who is actually
called in for the assassination of JFK and Martin Luther King to do the

So -- But there`s an issue with arresting him too soon. The problem is
they`re building a case, there`s a speedy trial issue, Ed, and that is once
the arrest is made, speedy trial; begins to run. If the defense lawyer`s
smart, what he would do is make a demand immediately and in most states,
he`s going to have to get a speedy trial within 60 days, otherwise, it`s
going to be a 120 days.

So, it`s not a good move to do this too quickly. Look, according to this -
- to the fellow who did the autopsy, there was no sign of close conflict
struggle, there was no close vicinity gun powder spray patterns that show a
close proximity shots that you typically see when an officer`s trying to
protect himself. The trajectory of the shots that killed Michael Brown,
who was unarmed, moved from the top of the skull down which potentially
showed Brown`s head down on what they call a submissive posture. More
importantly, virtually all of the early of the forensic findings are
consistent with the multiple, multiple eyewitness statements that uniformly
tell the story that Brown had surrendered.

So, is there enough to work with? Yes. Is it better that they take their
time and build the strongest case? They can, yes. The second thing you
need to consider, Ed, this DA in this backyard should not be the DA
involved. He should recluse himself, let the DA from another jurisdiction
come in and handle this. Even the grand jury that hears this should be
from another jurisdiction. If they are serious about trying to quell the
unrest, that`s what they should do. It happens all the time.

SCHULTZ: And what about Holder`s involvement? He`s going to be there on

PAPANTONIO: I think it`s wonderful. I`m glad to see Holder there. I`m
glad to see that they`re going to do another autopsy. I think the
questions that I need -- that I want answered was their DNA -- was it
Michael Brown`s DNA on the gun because the officers says, "Yeah, there was
a struggle for the gun." We ought to be able to find that.

The other issue that they need to look at is the clothes, the spray pattern
on the clothes are going to tell us an awful lot. But there`s plenty here
for an arrest, don`t get me wrong, plenty for an arrest but the smart thing
to do is build the best case that they can, wait it out, get the best case,
don`t invoke the speedy trial problem because it`ll bring a problem in the
long run because they`re going to have more time to study, more time to
test if they`ll simple be patient.

SCHULTZ: Michael, quickly, the releasing of the robbery videotape, how
does that play legally and how impactful is that?

PAPANTONIO: Well, I don`t -- I think there`s going to be so many moving
parts in these. There`s going to be an attack on -- obviously an attack on
Michael Brown. We -- Same thing that you saw with Trayvon Martin, you`re
going to see this time and time again that he was on drugs, that he did
something wrong. But really what comes right down to it, the person
prosecuting this case needs to lead the jury to understand none of that
really matters .


PAPANTONIO: . this was pure second-degree murder at the very least.

SCHULTZ: OK. Mike Papantonio, great to have you with us tonight, we`ll
come back to you on this story for sure. Thank you so much.

That`s the Ed Show, I`m Ed Schultz. Politics Nation with Reverend Al
Sharpton starts right now. Good evening, Rev.


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