THE ED SHOW
December 19, 2014
Guest: Joe Cirincione, Michael Kay, Chris Van Hollen, Paul Douglas,
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRES. BARACK OBAMA, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: They made a mistake.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In response to a threat that referenced the 9/11
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hackers working for North Korea tormented Sony
Pictures Entertainment for weeks.
OBAMA: We can confirm that North Korea engaged in this attack.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The computer hardware traces back to known computer
addresses in North Korea.
OBAMA: Imagine what they start doing when they see a documentary that they
don`t like or news reports that they don`t like.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sony has now canceled tours of its lot (ph) until
next year because of security concerns.
OBAMA: We will respond.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: Good to have you with us tonight folks, thanks for
We start with major developments in this Sony North Korea hacking story.
Today the FBI said it had extensive evidence that North Korea organized the
cyber attack that infiltrated Sony computer systems. The FBI released a
statement earlier today saying that, "We are deeply concerned about the
destructive nature of this attack on a private sector entity and the
ordinary citizens who worked there. Further, North Korean`s attack on
Sonny affirms that cyber threats pose one of the greatest National Security
dangers to the United States."
On Wednesday, Sony decided to pull the premier of "The Interview" after
hackers threatened movie theaters with 9/11 style attacks. Earlier today
President Obama held his yearend press conference, this was the focal
point. The first question asked was if Sony should have canceled "The
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Sony`s a corporation. It suffered significant damage. There were
threats against its employees. I am sympathetic to the concerns that they
faced. Having said all that yes, I think they made a mistake.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: The CEO of Sony Michael Lynton told CNN today, "The President,
the press, the public are mistaken as to what actually happened. We do not
own movie theaters. We cannot determine whether or not a movie will be
played in movie theaters."
Later in the press conference the President said meeting North Korea
demands is a slippery slope.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: We cannot have a society in which some dictators someplace can
start imposing censorship here in the Untied States. Because if somebody
is able to intimidate folks out of releasing a satirical movie, imagine
what they start doing when they see a documentary that they don`t like. Or
news reports that they don`t like.
Or even worse, imagine if producers and distributors and others start
engaging in self-censorship because they don`t want to offend the
sensibilities of somebody`s whose sensibilities probably need to be
offended. So, you know, that`s who we are. It`s not what America is
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: President Obama made clear North Korea will face consequences for
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: They caused a lot of damage and we will respond. We will respond
proportionally and we`ll respond in a place and time and manner that we
choose. It`s not something that I will announce here today in a press
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: And President Obama had no problem pocking fun at the Kim Jong-un
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: I think it says something interesting about North Korea that they
decided to have the state mount an all-out assault on a movie studio
because of a satirical movie starring Seth Rogen and James Flacco. I love
Seth and I love James, but the notion that that was a threat to them, I
think gives you some sense of the kind of regime we`re talking about here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: So in summation, President Obama says North Korea poses a cyber
threat to Americans and the United States will take action. But the
President thinks that Sony made a mistake by canceling the movie premier.
It sets a dangerous new precedent. President Obama said that he would have
no problem speaking to Sony executives before they made the decision.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Again I`m sympathetic that -- Sony is a private company, was
worried about liabilities and this that and the other. I wish they`d
spoken to me first. I would have told them do not get into -- a pattern in
which you`re intimidated by these kinds of criminal attacks.
Imagine if instead of if being a cyber threat somebody had broken into
their offices and destroyed a bunch of computers and stolen disks and -- is
that would takes for suddenly you`d pull the plug on something.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: This is where it gets more than interesting. Sony CEO Michael
Lynton also told CNN he spoke with Senior White House officials. OK Sony,
I want some names. Who did you speak to at White House, and what do you
talk about and for how long? And why didn`t consult the President of the
United States if you thought this was in the National Security interest?
I believe that this holding of the movie was not because of National
Security, it was for promotional purposes, to create anticipation in the
public and to make a greater dollar. I find it hard to believe the
President of United States wouldn`t take a phone call from the CEO of Sony.
That didn`t happen.
So why didn`t they talk to the President? They must have known the impact
this was going to have and they did. They know the impact it`s going to
have in their wallet.
Get your cellphones out. I want to know what you think. Tonight`s
question, "Do you think Sony should have talk to President Obama before
canceling the movie?"
Text A for yes, text B for no to 67622, you can always go to our blog at
ed.msnbc.com. We`ll bring you the result later on in the show.
For more let me bring in Joe Cirincione who is the President of
Ploughshares Fund, also with us tonight Michael Kay former British Senior
Officer and Internal Affairs Correspondent, gentlemen good to have you with
LT. COL. MICHAEL KAY, FMR BRITISH SR. OFFICER [RET]: Thank you Ed.
SCHULTZ: Well, it sure seems to me that this sheds new light on this
entire story that the President comes out and says, number one they
shouldn`t have canceled it. And oh by the way they didn`t talk to me.
Michael your thoughts on this, does this change a dynamic of the story when
it comes to security?
KAY: I don`t think it does, we speak about this last night in terms of how
you assess risk, probability versus consequence, capability versus intent
not attaching rhetoric with capability. We spoke about the CIA the FBI.
If Sony was really worried about this they should have sought advice from
appropriate authorities and there are some serious authorities in the U.S.
that can deal with these type of cyber attacks.
But Ed, this is a cyber attack and if we look at it in a broader context,
if you look at the main culprits in the world who are responsible for cyber
attacking worldwide. The first one is China of 41 percent and then number
two is America a 10 percent. So we have to not conflict the issue of a
cyber attack with other issue that are going on in Korea such foreign
policy and humanitarian.
SCHULTZ: But don`t you think they held the movie for self interest? To
protect their employees, it would had nothing to do with National Security
because if it did. OK, I mean, now remember now they claim that 9/11 style
attacks are going to take place in theaters. Well, why wasn`t the people -
- why weren`t the people of the highest level of our government consulted
KAY: Well I think that`s the key question, and Sony certainly don`t have
the apparatus that the FBI and CIA do in order to make those decisions.
KAY: Whether it`s a P.R. stunt, I mean that`s certainly one option or
whether is just a huge miscalculation of judgment, that`s another option.
And I would second guess the latter. Joe Cirincione your take on these new
JOE CIRINCIONE PRES, PRES., PLOUGHSHARES FUND: Well I don`t know why Sony
pulled the film but I agree with the President, it was a mistake. And he
eloquently described why in his press conference today and I got to say I
like his whole approach. He was Mr. Cool about this. Look, I don`t think
we should be making movies that approve of the assassination of national
leaders even humorously. But once you`ve made such a film then you have to
show it. And I think that`s the proper thing to do.
I agree with George Clooney, let`s put online or I just heard Congressman
Brad Sherman on you sister station CNBC say that we should bring up to
Capitol Hill at the beginning of the year and have a showing to members of
Congress. I just saw him in the hall of the studio and he was serious
about this. That might be the way to help deflate this issue to stand up,
to make to do with President said, don`t let a dictator halfway around the
world tell you what you can see or not see.
SCHULTZ: But is Sony hiding behind the White House right now? They`re
saying that they spoke with senior White House officials. Hey, I`m a
taxpayer I just want to know who they talk to. I mean, if this is about
National Security what does Sony have to hide? The President comes out
after apparently his advisers talked to Sony and says, well, I wish I had
chance to talk to him. I think that`s kind of key point. Joe?
CIRINCIONE: Yeah. Well Ed, let`s have some information. Clearly this
story is not going away, clearly there`s more to find out, there`s more to
find out about why the FBI thinks it was North Korea, there evidence clear
and what is the President going to do?
SCHULTZ: I mean I thought -- I like to know if the White House told him,
don`t release the movie. Well, obviously they didn`t now because the
President said they made a mistake. So, did the senior White House
officials say, hey your running a private business, you got to do what you
got to do. There`s no way to go credible threat here?
CIRINCIONE: There`s no indication from the President that that
conversation happened at all. I doubt very much that he would have made
the statement he made today if they were talking to his National Security
adviser or his Chief of Staff, so let`s see what officials they were
talking to. Sony says they pulled it because the theater owners refused to
show it. As the President said I understand those...
CIRINCIONE: ... concerns, I`m sympathetic with their concerns. But that`s
not the right thing to do.
KAY: As we said last night there was the -- when it comes to risk and when
it comes to threat levels there is a graduated level of threat that we can
see. We can see the threat from Syria and ISIS who`s a generic threat to
most citizens in the U.S. There`s higher threat levels which actually
specifically target infrastructure, groups, individuals, organization and
if Sony had received those then I think there would be every right to
KAY: ... to have conversation. But the options should had been on the
table and discussed.
SCHULTZ: North Korea was into there computer for three weeks before they
knew about it. Now I`m sure Americans where out there tonight thinking,
well what else did they hacked into? Are their cyber geeks better than
ours? No offense folks.
But, you know when I`m saying, I mean that`s where Americans are right now.
What is this all about? Is this the first real cyber attack on America, of
course the White House has been hacked. Can this guy get a cyber people to
get into the Pentagon? What about that?
KAY: Well, I mean look, North Korea don`t even feature in the top 10 when
it comes to offenders of worldwide cyber attacks. And bet back to initial
point. If we got to be worried about someone, we should be worried about
China of 41 percent and were...
KAY: ... were also culprits of this as well Ed. And I have no doubt that
within the cyberspace there will counter attacks going on in terms of
understanding the way that his happened.
SCHULTZ: OK, Joe what options do you think President Obama has? He says
that we`re going to take action, he`s not going to announce it, they`ll
deal with it due time. What are the options?
CIRINCIONE: Yeah, this is a very difficult situation because basically
there are no very good options here. Can you sanction North Korea? Maybe
a little more but they`re already the most heavily sanctioned country in
the world. Can you isolate them more? They`re already one of the most
isolated countries in the world. Can you attack their computers? That is
I don`t think you want to get into a cyber war with them. What we think of
as a proportional response to this, they may think of as unacceptable
attack on them and responding kind. We`re the ones who have the most to
lose there. North Korea is barely connected to the internet, we invented
the internet, we`re a very computer dependent society. As Michael knows
our computers get attacked thousand of times a day.
CIRINCIONE: The answer to this is to beef up your cyber defenses to fight
-- to put pressure on China to restrain North Korea on this and to stop and
either ignoring North Korea or mocking them, neither one of those
SCHULTZ: All right. We have just received another statement from Sony
Pictures and as it reads, Sony Pictures Entertainment is and always has
been strongly committed to the first amendment. For more than three weeks
despite brutal intrusions into our company and our employee`s personal
lives we maintain our focus on one goal, getting the film "The Interview"
released. Free expression should never be suppressed by threats and
The decision not to move forward with the December 25th theatrical release
of "The Interview" was made as a result of the majority of the nation`s
theater owners choosing not to screen the film. This was their decision
and let us be clear, the only decision that we have made with respect to
release of the film was not to release it on Christmas Day in theaters.
SCHTULZ: After the theater owners decline to show it, without theaters we
could not release it in theaters on Christmas Day, we had no choice. After
that decision we immediately began actively surveying alternatives to
enable us to release the movie on a different platform. It is still our
hope that anyone who wants to see this movie will get the opportunity to do
Joe, your response to the corporate take there.
CIRINCIONE: Again, I`m very sympathetic to this. If you owned a movie
theater would you show this in Christmas Day? Would you as ticket buyer,
would you go to this movie? So now that you`ve made that decision you
pulled it, what are you going to do, how are your going to fix it?
There are online options, there are public screening that you could do in
Washington to demonstrate our resolve. Perhaps if this as you say Ed, a
one two, one we`re going to build up interest in this and two we`re going
to release it...
CIRINCIONE: ... in January. You know, people have said that you could`ve
release this online for free just eat the $44 million cost of the movie and
answer it that way and then people can enjoy in the safety of their home.
That`s a pretty good option.
SCHULTZ: Michael I want to give you a chance, your reaction to Sony`s late
KAY: Yeah, and one other thing we need do is, we now need to look to the
future. We need to understand and improve what seems to be a huge vacuum
of communication when it comes to the security of infrastructure. I`d love
to know who the movie theaters taken advice from when it came to the
decision that they made.
What was the communication that happened with Sony? What was the
communication between the Sony, the CIA, the FBI because realistically,
Sony aren`t going to straight to the President. And I also look -- I`d
also like to see the investigation and looks at the ways in the future of
minimizing the collateral of what just happened and how we deal with
something like this in the future.
SCHULTZ: All right, gentlemen thanks so much. Joe Cirincione and Michael
Kay with us here on the Ed Show. Thank you with our top story.
Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the screen.
Share your thoughts with us on Twitter and like us on Facebook. Thanks for
doing that, we always want to know what you think.
Coming up, President Obama directly addressing the right-wing critics on
Plus, these year`s biggest lie climate change deniers get their moment in
the sun. Keep it here, we`ll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: I don`t anticipate overnight changes. But what I know deep in my
bones is if you`ve done the same thing for 50 years and nothing`s changed
you should try something different if you want a different outcome. And
this gives us an opportunity for a different outcome.
I think it`ll happen in fits and starts, but through engagement we have a
better chance of bringing about change that we would have otherwise.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Thanks for joining us tonight. Welcome back to the Ed Show.
President Obama laid out his hopes for Cuba during his press conference
this afternoon, the last one of the year. The President has received a lot
of criticism from the right-wing.
It seems two Republicans are battling to outright each other on Cuba. Jeb
Bush who announced this week that he will explore the possibility of
running for President in 2016 jumped on the President`s decision. In a
statement on Facebook he wrote, the former Governor of Florida said that
the move was the latest foreign policy misstep by this President, and
another diplomatic overreach of his executive authority.
Not to be outdone Florida Senator Marco Rubio also went on the attack. The
son of Cuban immigrants has been considered a potential 2016 candidate for
the GOP. Rubio was critical of the deal. And he says it`s one-sided.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARCO RUBIO, (R) FLORIDA: This issue, this deal that the President
has come up with is a terrible tradeoff. In exchange for diplomatic
recognition, more cooperation on telecommunications, more banking, more
commerce, more travel and more remittances, in the words of Raul Castro,
Cuba has agreed to nothing. This is the kind of deal you get when you send
your speechwriter to negotiate with a tyrant.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Meanwhile another conservative with eyes on 2016 made headlines
by supporting President Obama`s decision. Rand Paul told a West Virginia
radio station WVHU. The embargo hasn`t worked and opening up trade with
Cuba is probably a good idea. Marco Rubio fired back at the Kentucky
Senator as well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUBIO: Like many people who have been opining, he has no idea what he`s
talking about. The embargo is not what`s hurting the Cuban people. It`s
the lack of freedom and the lack of competent leaders.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: All these Republicans are on the wrong side of history just like
they were with Obamacare, trying to outright each other doesn`t make them a
better candidate. But it makes for good entertainment.
Joining me tonight Congressman Chris Van Hollen of Maryland, Congressman
good to have you with us tonight. You of course were personally involved
in this venture to Havana to see the release of the American Mr. Gross. Is
the President doing the right thing or let me ask you this, are Republicans
on the wrong side of history here?
REP. VAN HOLLEN, (R) MARYLAND: They`re totally on the wrong side of
history. And they`re totally on the wrong side of all the evidence of the
last 54 years because the policy of isolation of trying to punish Cuba has
been a miserable failure by its own goals, right? The goal was squeeze
Cuba. That will get rid of the Castro brothers. That will bring about
In fact, isolating Cuba has only isolated the Cuban people. It`s only
squeezed the Cuban people. The Castro brothers have survived eight
American Presidents and they`re doing just fine, thank you. So, the
reality is that, the burden is on people like Senator Rubio to show why
another five or ten years of a policy that has failed for the last 54 would
get a different result.
Because, we all know the definition of insanity is doing the same thing
over and over and expecting different result.
SCHULTZ: It seems that Mr. Rubio is focused on a bad deal that`s made by
the President that we didn`t get enough. What`s your answer to that? I
mean diplomatic relations are the beginning. It`s almost like he has such
a revengeful attitude towards the country of Cuba because of history and
can`t see the light of day in the future. But -- what about the points
that he`s making that the President got nothing?
VAN HOLLEN: Well, he totally misunderstands the fact that we are not doing
a favor to the Cuban regime by changing the policy that has helped empower
the Cuban regime for so long. In other words, the policy we`ve had in
place has not hurt the Castro brothers, they are doing just fine. It has
hurt the Cuban people, and so what the President is saying is, let`s engage
the Cuban people, more travel, more trade, more exchange of ideas and
And over time, not tomorrow, but overtime that will open more space for the
Cuban people. That the current policy is simply backfired, it may have
been well-intentioned but it clearly did not achieve the result. So let`s
try something very different.
So this is not doing a favor to the Cuban regime. In fact the Cuban regime
is probably the one that`s taking a greatest risk here because they even
perpetuated and strengthened by the policy we`ve had in place for the last
SCHULTZ: Well I think that`s a very profound point because, if anybody is
going to change on this deal it`s going to be them not America. That`s how
I view it. So what`s the downside here?
VAN HOLLEN: Well I don`t -- there`s not a downside. And this is why the
President has wanted to pursue this from his very first campaign when he
was running for President.
VAN HOLLEN: He said even he was campaigning in Florida, its good for the
United States to push Cuba to open. And the way you do that is not through
a failed policy of 54 years. The way you do that is through greater
exchange, a greater flow of ideas and goods.
You know, my friend Congressman Jim McGovern from Massachusetts who`s done
a lot to promote a change in policy towards Cuba said that the two words
that the Castro brothers most fear is spring break. Meaning, American
college students coming down to Cuba and opening up Cuba because the
reality is Ed, as we`ve seen by trying to build a wall, it`s allowed the
Castro brothers to hide. Because...
VAN HOLLEN: ... what they`ve used s an excuse this, right? They say to
their people, hey, the Yankee threat requires us to take emergency
measures. You know, we`ve got to clampdown on freedom of the press, we
going to clampdown on human rights to protect ourselves from the Yankees.
They won`t have that excuse anymore.
SCHULTZ: Yeah. Congressman, I`ve got to ask you on an unrelated story.
Let`s talk about the next session of Congress. What is your position going
to be with the Democratic leadership team? Is there going to be a vote for
the position Steny Hoyer holds right now? What`s happening there?
VAN HOLLEN: Well no, we`ve got our leadership team in place. We did those
elections right after the general...
SCHULTZ: So there`ll be no change and that`s not going to be challenged at
VAN HOLLEN: No, but I will continue to serve as the senior member on the
budget committee and I believe Ed, that the budget will present of the
Democrats with a real opportunity to show the contrast between our approach
to try and empower the American people from the bottom up and a review of
the -- a repeat of the trickled down approach that the Republicans have.
And you`re going to see in the coming weeks Ed, I think a number of
proposals that many of us are going to put forward to try to deal with this
whole issue of wage stagnation, right? We`ve seen growing productivity
over the years. Workers have been more productive than ever.
VAN HOLLEN: Wages flat. We need to change that and we`ve got some policy
ideas to begin to do that.
SCHULTZ: All right. Congressman Chris Van Hollen, and Ed Show favorite,
great to have you with us tonight. I appreciate it very much.
VAN HOLLEN: Thank you, Ed.
SCHULTZ: You bet.
Coming up, the hard cold truth. The Rapid Response Panel weights in on the
lie of the year.
Plus, tree-time defending National Champion North Dakota State University
puts it on the line tonight. It`s a Friday night game. Two minute drill,
it`s a dandy. Stay with us.
Your question is next, Ask Ed Live on the Ed Show on MSNBC. We`ll be right
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. I appreciate all the questions.
Love hearing from our viewers.
Tonight in our Ask Ed Live Segment, our first question is from William. He
wants to know, "What are you hoping to get for Christmas this year?" It`s
already been delivered. My wife is 100 percent healthy.
I told the kids don`t buy for the old man this year. I want for nothing,
although if there`s a lot of new fishing equipment hanging around on
Christmas morning, I`m OK with that.
Our next question is from Julie. And she wants to know, "Do you and your
family have any Christmas traditions that you do every year?" Yes,
Christmas Eve. Everybody gets together and it`s always Christmas Eve.
Church, a big meal and I do this every year. I do prime rib and lobster.
I do it once a year. We do it in our Christmas Eve.
And then of course, we have the creation in our home of this tornado where
the grandkids start opening up the presents and you don`t want to get in
the middle of that.
Stick around, Rapid Response Panel is next.
HAMPTON PEARSON, CNBC CORRESPONDENT: I`m Hampton Pearson with your CNBC
Stocks add to this week`s big gains. The Dow climbs 26 points. The S&P
ends up by 9. The NASDAQ finishes about 17 points higher.
A rebound for oil, crude for January delivery rising $2.41 cents of barrel
or more than 4 percent to $56.52 a barrel. Prices are still down about 50
percent from their June highs.
And Staples is conforming a data breach effecting more than a million
payment cards. The breach exposed names, card numbers and expiration dates
and verification codes.
That`s it from CNBC, first in business worldwide.
SCHULTZ: Thanks for joining us tonight. Welcome back to the Ed Show. In
the outgoing 113th Congress, 90 percent of Republicans leadership denies
the reality of climate change.
Next month, Republicans will take charge of both chambers House and Senate.
Now the GOP has already vowed to take up Keystone, dismantled the carbon
emission`s rule and roll back EPA regulations. Oh boy.
The next two years of GOP leadership jeopardizes any progress we`ve made in
the fight on climate change. At least Americans are pay attention.
PolitiFact readers chose global warming is a hoax as the 2014 lie of the
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LENAR WHITNEY, LOUISIANA HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: Any 10-year-old can
invalidate their thesis with one of the simplest scientific devices known
to man, a thermometer.
SEN. TED CRUZ, (R) TEXAS: In the last 15 years, there has been no recorded
GOV. JAY NIXON, (R) MISSOURI: Temperatures have not increased over the
last 15 years.
GOV. RICK PERRY, (R) TEXAS: You know, I`m not a scientist, I`m not a
RUBIO: I do not believe that human activity is causing these dramatic
changes to our climate the way these scientists are portraying it.
PERRY: Calling CO2 a pollutant is doing a disservice to the country. I
think it`s doing a disservice to the world.
WHITNEY: Energy security is real. Global warming is not. It is merely a
strategy designed to give more power to the executive branch.
NIXON: First of all, global warming is not taking place. It`s kind of
laughable right now with all the records that are being sent.
CRUZ: The problem with climate change is there`s never a day in the
history of the world in which the climate is not changing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Joining me tonight in our Rapid Response Panel Paul Douglas,
Senior Meteorologist at Media Logic Group in Minneapolis, also with us
tonight, Michael Brune, Executive Director of the Sierra Club.
Let`s start with you Paul. How outrageous are those sound bytes or let me
just be a little bit more fair about it. Are they correct?
PAUL DOUGLAS, SR. METEOROLOGIST MLG: No, they are incorrect. Who was it,
Upton Sinclair who said that -- well how do I paraphrase this, it`s hard to
get a man to accept something when his salary depends on him not accepting
The thing I keep hearing is that, the cure is worst in the disease. And
from everything I understand, even Senator Inhofe at one point acknowledged
the reality of climate change until somebody whispered in this ear how much
do it cost.
I`m an entrepreneur Ed. I`m on my fourth company, I believe in the power
of markets. I believe in the power of innovation. I believe -- the same
country that sent men the moon, split the atom, won World War II, cured
polio can find a way to keep the lights on and the economy powered up
without polluting. But it needs to be market based.
And right now -- I`m sorry, we don`t have free market. We have privatized
profits and we`ve socialized costs. For the market to come up with the
innovations we need the thousands of new companies that will create true
energy independence in our lifetime and our kids` lifetime, we need to put
a signal in the market.
There needs to be a price on carbon. You can`t pollute with impunity in
this country. You can`t back up your track and dump toxic chemicals into a
lake or a river and yet that`s what we`ve been doing with the atmosphere
and now it`s coming back to bite us. And where it`s biting us is with the
SCHULTZ: Yeah, no doubt.
DOUGLAS: And it turns out, 97 percent -- Ed, 97 percent of voters under
the age of 35 acknowledge climate change. At some point this becomes a
real existential risk for the Republicans. Most young people acknowledge
the science and still respond to data and facts.
SCHULTZ: Michael, what do you make of the demographic breakdown? Are
younger people just smarter about it or what? I mean, it just seems that
it`s a lie of the year. The statements that are made by Republicans simply
are not true. They are in denial of the facts. Why do young people get it
and maybe an older demographic doesn`t?
MICHAEL BRUNE, EXEC. DIR. SIERRA CLUB: I think young people get it in part
because they`re less inclined to delusion particularly when it comes to
politics. They`re looking for authenticity. They want people whether
they`re CEOs or in elected office to just talk straight and to be adults
and to talk to them like they`re adults.
But young people also are excited about what clean energy can do for the
future. What Paul was just saying is true. And if you look at those sound
bytes, if you measure the cost of clean energy from some of those earlier
sound bytes until today, solar has dropped in cost by 70 percent. Wind has
dropped in cost by 50 percent in the last five years.
So young people see a future where our economy is based on clean energy
that will create more jobs, it will improve our health, it will cut carbon
but it will increase prosperity for them and for working Americans. And
they`re exited about that, and every time they hear someone who says that
climate change isn`t real...
BRUNE: You know, they have not -- there`s not reason for them...
BRUNE: ... to support people like that.
SCHULTZ: Paul what about the next two years? If all these deniers are in
control, we`re going to lose two years of progress on doing something about
climate change. What do you make of that?
DOUGLAS: Yes, but you`re also going to alienate the base too. At some
point voters especially younger voters are going to -- they`re going to
vote. And they`re going to vote for the party that still believes in a
place for science and data and facts. But I want to point Ed, something
that I think you know. Not all Republicans...
DOUGLAS: ... are science deniers.
SCHULTZ: That`s right.
DOUGLAS: Some of us actually acknowledge the world as it is, not the world
we think should be. And there are solutions out there. There are market
based solutions. The best solutions Ed, won`t come topdown but bottom up
but step is acknowledging that we have a problem, and then let`s figure out
DOUGLAS: ... of growing new energy alternatives that don`t necessarily
make the federal government bigger, but solve the actual problems that...
DOUGLAS: ... we`re going to be faced with and make us more resilient.
SCHULTZ: One of the things that the President talked about at his year-end
press conference today was the Keystone XL pipeline. He talked about the
potential cost of the Keystone pipeline. Let`s take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: I want to make sure that if in fact this project goes forward, that
it`s not adding to the problem of climate change, which I think is very
serious and does impose serious cost on the American people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: I mean he talked at length about Keystone Michael. It sounds
like the President is going to veto it.
BRUNE: It does. You know, we`ve been conferring for the last couple of
years actually that the President is going to reject the pipeline. He
knows that you can create a clean energy economy. You can`t make progress
on fighting climate change, and then approve a pipeline that would take oil
from the dirtiest fuel source on the planet and send it all the way through
our country to other countries.
So, we`re confident he`ll reject it. I want to say, we`re going to make
great progress over the next couple of years. Not everything that matters
happens inside the beltway.
BRUNE: So, in states all across the country there it will be dramatic
progress of replacing coal with clean energy, replacing fracking with
advanced batteries and clean energy. What will happen is that a lot of the
Republicans who were just quoted on your show are going to falling further
and further behind not only where the public is but where a business
And that is going to be something that`s a political problem for them, but
as far as the challenge of fighting climate change, they will become less
and less relevant over time.
Gentlemen, great to have with us. Paul Douglas and Michael Brune here on
the Ed Show tonight. I appreciate your time.
BRUNE: Thanks Ed.
DOUGLAS: Thanks Ed.
SCHULTZ: Bill Cosby`s attorney has words for Michael Eric Dyson.
Professor Dyson joins us exclusively tonight. Stay with us. We`ll be
SCHULTZ: And tonight two minutes drill, a big good luck to the Thundering
Herd. North Dakota State University at 13-1 takes on Sam Houston State 11-
4 in a gym packed Fargodome Stadium tonight at Fargo, North Dakota. The
Bison going for their fourth straight FCS champion, the two teams met in
two out of the last three title games.
Bison running back John Crockett rushed for 227 yards and a couple of
touchdowns last week against Coastal Carolina. Sam Houston quarterback
Jared Johnson threw for 303 yards and three touchdowns in a win over
Villanova last week.
The Bison almost unbeatable at home, they are 10 point favorite to go to
Frisco, Texas on January 10th to get their fourth straight national
championship. I did their games from 83 to 95 back in the day. Let`s hear
for the Thundering Herd and go Bison.
Fargo is going have a good time tonight. We`ll be right back on the Ed
SCHULTZ: And finally tonight, new details are emerging in the controversy
surrounding entertainer Bill Cosby. His lawyers are trying to clarify
remarks Cosby made about "Black Press". This comes amid new allegations
from a woman who says that Cosby drugged her back in 1988. NBC`s Stephanie
Gosk has more.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANIE GOSK, NBC CORRESPONDENT: Bill Cosby fighting back. Against the
allegations, he asked black media reporters and outlets for preferential
treatment in the midst of his sex abuse scandal.
On Thursday, Cosby`s lawyer released a statement saying in part, "To the
contrary, he asked that they adhere to journalistic standards and approach
the story in a neutral manner -- without a predisposition on either side of
the story. It is of course what we would expect of all media".
Last week, facing mounting allegations from some 20 women who say the actor
sexually assaulted and/or drugged them. Cosby broke his silence telling
reporter Stacy Brown, the African-American media should be impartial.
BILL COSBY, AMERICAN ACTOR: I only expect our black media to uphold
standards of excellent journalism and when you do that, you go in with a
GOSK: Cosby`s lawyers have vehemently denied the allegations. He`s never
been charged and just this week both his wife and daughter issued public
statements of support.
MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: The very kind of man who
would rape women, allegedly is that same kind of man who will rape an
entire black community.
GOSK: Cosby`s attorney called those comments by Georgetown University
Professor and Commentator Michael Eric Dyson, "Mean-spirited and reckless".
In a statement to NBC News Michael Eric Dyson says, "I do not wish my words
to distract from the larger issue. Mr. Cosby`s hurtful and unjust views of
black America, and serious allegations about Mr. Cosby`s sexual misconduct.
I pledge to keep the focus on the matters at hand with the professional
respect that Mr. Cosby and all others are due."
Meanwhile, a new allegation from a woman accusing Cosby of drugging her in
1998, the woman who identified herself only as Lisa appeared on Dr. Phil in
an interview set to air today. She says she was 21 when she met Cosby who
offered to help her with her career.
PHIL MCGRAW, "DR. PHIL" HOST: You don`t really know what happened. Do you
know if he rapped you? Do you know if he molested you in some way? Do you
know -- you don`t really know what did happened?
LISA, BILL COSBY ACCUSER: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Joining us tonight, Dr. Michael Eric Dyson, MSNBC Political
Analyst and Georgetown University Professor joining us exclusively here on
the Ed Show.
Doctor, there`s no doubt that Bill Cosby apparently has some expectations
of the black media in America. What are your thoughts on that that he
would in a sense call out and expect something of the black media. At
least that`s the way I took it?
DYSON: Right. Well, let me defend Mr. Cosby first. He says that he saw
told that he was being called specifically from a black media outlet. So
it would make sense that would say, look this is what I expect of the black
media. I can understand how having been informed of that, he would then go
on to say, this is what I want the black media to do.
So let me defend him on that premise. However, beyond that I think the
black media has failed miserably in the past. Let me not point the finger
at Mr. Cosby. Let me point the finger at all those journalist who for the
last 10 years when Mr. Cosby was engaging, and I think very unfair,
unprincipled, vicious assaults upon poor black people, especially black
women. They came to his defense calling organic conservative belief within
Columnist who were rising up saying that he was finally telling the truth
that could be not heralded from other pulpits in America, that he alone was
the person who was rising up to give us some insight that I think was
repacked stereotypes, pathological conceptions of black people and sexist
tirades against vulnerable, poor black women.
DYSON: So, I think the black media has been miserable in its failure in
its obligation to take these charges seriously and also Mr. Cosby`s views
about black America more broadly.
SCHULTZ: Do you think that Bill Cosby has been doing the black community
in America a disservice for years?
DYSON: I think he has. I think he -- look, as an American comedian he`s a
genius, one of the two or three greatest American comedians that we`ve ever
seen, along with Richard Prior and Mark Twain and Maybe Lenny Bruce and
George Carlin. So, there`s no question that he`s a remarkable rhetorician.
There`s no question that his insight as an American entertainer has been
extraordinary and his pioneered career. However, that doesn`t translate
into the social analysis realm. He has used his enormous wealth and his
philanthropy to I think undermine and subvert the very practices of decency
and respect to ordinary, average black people.
I think he has used his Billy pulpit to rain down thunder upon them. And I
think he has been incredibly unfair.
Let me give you one example. We were all gathered in New Orleans after
Katrina and Reverend Jessie Jackson and Reverend Al Sharpton and Mark
Muriel and myself were leading the march and we spoke. Mr. Cosby spoke as
well. The rest of us were saying let`s defend these people who have been
Mr. Cosby got up and said look you were messed up before the storm came.
You were having murders before the storm came. You were having babies out
of wedlock before the storm came. And he began to get on a roll of I think
attacking defenseless people.
That`s kind of thing is not helpful. It reinforces racist stereotypes
about black people. It doesn`t shed light on the persistence of structural
inequalities that prevail. And it allows him to get off on poor people
which is a sport in America that I think is defenseless. And we have
DYSON: And we have to hold him to account and be as vigorously critical as
one can imagine.
SCHULTZ: What has been your relationship with Mr. Cosby over the years
DYSON: Look, after my book appeared, "Is Bill Cosby Right?: Or Has the
Black Middle Class Lost his Mind?" Predictably Mr. Cosby did not feel very
well. So I saw him in a restaurant one night, the long story short outside
he gave me the finger.
The next morning we were on a train together from New York to Washington --
to Philadelphia. He apologized to me. And then we had a vigorous
conversation. I invited him unto my radio show. He said I will not come
on your show until you are enlightened and see the truth.
DYSON: I think there`s a kind of arrogance about Mr. Cosby that believes
his way is the only way. And unfortunately we weren`t able to resolve our
differences in terms of an amicable conversation. But certainly we`ve
tried to prosecute our differences the best way we know how.
SCHULTZ: What would you tell Bill Cosby today? What would your counsel to
DYSON: I would say first of all, that I hope that you would reconsider
that the position you`re in now, that others have felt this way for 10
years, that is to say, attacked unfairly, unjustly assaulted and therefore
use your particular predicament now. And you are old, the presumption of
innocence until guilt is proved. You are old, not to be hung by a jury in
the court of public opinion.
But at the same time, you are also I think responsible as a celebrity and a
figure who is a public person to own up to discussions about issues that
have been brought before us. So, he`s right about the media. Nobody should
rush to judge him but at the same time I think when we consider the
evidence that is weighing against him, any fair-minded person would have to
say are 20 to 25 women wrong?
The same thing happened in the Catholic Church when the accusations began
to mount up. Again there`s no judgment. We assume that he`s innocent
until proven guilty.
DYSON: But we must have a vigorous conversation. And I would say to him,
own up, tell the truth, talk about black America, talk about your
particular ideas about us. And at the same time...
SCHULTZ: All right.
DYSON: ... be honest about your situation.
SCHULTZ: Dr. Michael Eric Dyson, good to have you with us tonight here on
the Ed Show. I appreciate it. Thank you.
That is the Ed Show. I`m Schultz.
"PoliticsNation" with Reverend Al Sharpton starts right now. Good evening
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The Ed Show for Friday, December 19th, 2014
THE ED SHOW