ANNOUNCER: DEBORAH NORVILLE TONIGHT.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DEBORAH NORVILLE, HOST: Did you think they were going to die?
ANNE HJELLE, ATTACKED BY MOUNTAIN LION: I‘m thinking he just tore my face off.
NORVILLE: You don‘t think there‘s a cool guy in the room?
DREW BARRYMORE, ACTRESS: Definitely not!
LIONEL RICHIE, SINGER: She said, I need some help.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: 2004 -- it was an extraordinary year of survivors...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARON RALSTON, CUT OFF HIS OWN ARM: I was six days there as a dead man.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: ... hometown heroes...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NORVILLE: You repeated the 23rd Psalm almost hourly.
THOMAS HAMILL, FORMER HOSTAGE: That‘s right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: ... outspoken newsmakers...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TERESA HEINZ KERRY, WIFE OF SEN. JOHN KERRY: I will tell people what I think.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: ... and unforgettable heartbreakers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NORVILLE: And I have tears in my eyes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: From the front line of controversy...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIG. GEN. JANIS KARPINSKI, U.S. ARMY: I should accept the responsibility. They were my soldiers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: ... to the back stage of celebrity, we showcase them all.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NORVILLE: Are there things that are off limits?
JOAN RIVERS, COMEDIAN: Well, I‘m terribly sorry about all the things I‘ve said about you over the years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Tonight, Deborah‘s most memorable guests of 2004.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARRY MANILOW, SINGER/SONGWRITER: Whoa, this is serious, man.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: From studio 3K in Rockefeller Center, Deborah Norville.
NORVILLE: And good evening. For the next hour, we‘re going to take a look back at some of my more memorable guests of 2004. Some were famous, some were household names, others just ordinary folks who found themselves caught up in extraordinary circumstances.
We start off this evening with some amazing survivor stories, people who overcame death-defying odds and lived to tell about their incredible ordeals, people like Aron Ralston. He‘s the hiker who was trapped in Utah for six days in a canyon. And feeling death get closer, he made an incredible decision, his last chance to free himself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP - SEPTEMBER 16, 2004)
Did you really know from the beginning that to get out of this fix, you were going to have to remove your hand?
ARON RALSTON, CUT OFF HIS OWN ARM: I knew that that was going to be the most likely thing that was going to play, out with all the options that I—that I came up with when I was brainstorming my escape, that amputation was the only one that would get me out of there.
NORVILLE: What were the other options?
RALSTON: Trying to chip away at the boulder, using the pocket knife that I had to gouge out rock to remove my hand, which would have taken an eon to have been successful, lifting the boulder using the ropes and some of the climbing rigging that I had, which just wasn‘t up to the task because of the friction in the systems that I was building—insufficient supplies, essentially—that the other option was to wait for someone to come down that canyon and find me and then get help, but only a couple dozen people over the course of a year go down through that section of the canyon.
But just as each of those options played out without success, amputating my arm, even within the first 24 hours, I had to discard that as being a true option because the knife that I had wasn‘t sharp enough to get through the bones in my arm. Therefore, I couldn‘t do it. I was six days there as a dead man before the epiphany came.
NORVILLE: And the epiphany came to you almost in a vision. You saw yourself in the future. Tell me about that.
RALSTON: There was—there was a series over the last few days, because of, I think, the sleep deprivation, also my body‘s defense mechanisms, out-of-body experiences, where I would try to leave the canyon, seeing my friends, these visions that came to me that helped sustain me and give me encouragement.
But there was one where I actually saw into the future. That—what convinced me was the future. I walked into a room after having—it sounds kind of odd, but I left my body, walked through the canyon wall, a panel door opened, closed behind me. I‘m in a living room, and a little boy, a three-year-old wearing a red polo shirt playing with his trucks on a sunlit floor, turns to me and looks up and says, “Daddy,” and comes running across. And I scoop him up in my arm and put him on my shoulder. And I look—as I‘m looking at myself doing that, I see that I‘m using a residual limb. I don‘t have a hand on my right arm. And the Daddy thing, it just—it told me, I‘m going to last through this to see something beyond this canyon.”
NORVILLE: When you—and I have tears in my eyes. When you told that story to your mom, did she just collapse?
RALSTON: Oh, it was...
NORVILLE: That‘s so emotional.
RALSTON: ... one of many emotional times with my mom, especially,
because of what she went through with the investigation, the rescue, that -
· the strife that she endured. That touched me almost more than my own suffering did, as I went through the recovery process, understanding what she suffered.
The reunion of the two of us together in the hospital, which is kind of the climax of the book, that once we get back together, the two of us are—I don‘t know that I‘ve ever felt so deeply in love with another person as when I saw my mom there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NORVILLE: Incredible story from a truly incredible man. We should note that Aron is already back out there hiking some of New Zealand‘s toughest tracks while he‘s on his book tour.
Back in January, Anne Hjelle‘s bike ride near her home in California turned into a terrifying battle for her life. That‘s when a mountain lion attacked her, pulling her off the bike. She told us went through her mind as she faced what seemed to be certain death.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP - MAY 20, 2004)
And then he just powered you down onto the ground, off your bike?
ANNE HJELLE, ATTACKED BY MOUNTAIN LION: He did. And it happened so fast, I was so stunned by it that I don‘t remember hitting the ground. I mean, I hit with such impact that this elbow was black and blue for weeks. I mean, I‘d never had a bruise that severe in all my years of riding with plenty of crashes, so I know that I hit with a lot of force, but I don‘t even remember hitting the ground because it happened so quickly, and I was just stunned by it.
NORVILLE: And then he did what?
HJELLE: Well, he immediately started to try to drag me off of the trail. He did—I‘m not sure at what point, but he did readjust and start to move around to the front of my head, to my face.
NORVILLE: You could feel his jaws coming onto your face?
HJELLE: I was aware when he clamped down here on the left side of my face, yes.
NORVILLE: Could you smell him?
HJELLE: You know, I couldn‘t. And in fact, a lot of people have asked me, too, about what kind of sounds he made, and he made no sound. I mean, there‘s no rustling as he‘s bounding through the brush. They figure that he was about five feet off the trail, kind of bedded down. And one thing about mountain lions is they can from a crouch position jump horizontally 40, 45 feet. So for him to be five feet off the trail and hitting me when I‘m moving 15 miles an hour, that‘s a lot of power in that jump.
NORVILLE: As he bit you, did it hurt? It must have been horrifically painful.
HJELLE: You know, I don‘t remember any pain associated with that, when he clamped down and I felt my cheek, basically, tear away. But I felt his power. His strength was just unbelievable. And I realized for that tissue to just peel away like that, that‘s a lot of force.
NORVILLE: You could feel—I mean, it‘s obvious on your cheek, where
· where the biggest part of the injury was. You could feel it take your face...
HJELLE: I did, Yes.
NORVILLE: ... off your skull?
HJELLE: Yes. And like I said, though, no pain, so it was unusual—
I mean, it was terrifying, in that I knew I was in serious trouble with this lion having a hold of me like that, and I did feel that tear away and knew instantly the amount of damage he had just done.
NORVILLE: Did you think, This is it, I must be dying, this is a horrific injury I‘ve just sustained...
HJELLE: You know...
NORVILLE: Because you‘re obviously conscious of what‘s going on as this terror is also rolling around you.
HJELLE: Right. It‘s kind of slow motion, not really sure if this is really happening to me. But my thought—my first thought when I felt that tear away was, I want to die, thinking of the damage that was just done to me. And I‘m thinking, He just tore my face off. But my next thought was of my husband and wanting to make it for him, so it kind of—instantly, my thoughts changed to where I did want to make it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NORVILLE: Anne Hjelle has had several surgeries since we talked, and she says she‘s looking forward to getting back to normal. We should note that she‘s started her own Web site. It‘s Annehjelle.com.
This year, we spent a lot of time talking about the war in Iraq. We‘ve interviewed soldiers and generals and analysts and politicians. But there‘s one man who stood out above all of them, Thomas Hamill. Remember him? He‘s the civilian truck driver who was filmed by a television crew just moments after he was captured by insurgents in Iraq. Hamill was there in Iraq for work, as he was struggling to make ends meet back home in Mississippi.
He was held hostage for 24 days while his family and his community back home prayed for his release.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP - OCTOBER 19, 2004)
You then went through a period of days where you were just passed from safe house to safe house. What gave you the strength to not give up, as you were sitting in front of the flag, being asked to make a statement to the Iraqi captors? How did you not fall apart?
THOMAS HAMILL, FORMER HOSTAGE: I don‘t know. That‘s hard to explain, other than, like I said, in the past, I put it in God‘s hands. I actually told my wife I‘ve probably been under more stress and discomfort over here trying to, you know, live, working two jobs and trying to support my family, than actually going over there. And I feel like God kind of groomed me for all this. He had me ready for this situation and he knew how I would react.
NORVILLE: You repeated the 23rd Psalm almost hourly.
HAMILL: That‘s right.
NORVILLE: Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death—did you think you were going to die?
HAMILL: It—early on—earlier—I mean, I wasn‘t sure. I mean, I put this in God‘s hands, and I don‘t know what his—you know, his outcome‘s going to be. I mean, it might have been my time and he was going to call me away. And I—but I got myself ready for that. I said, you know, I‘m ready, God, whatever it is. But I‘ve got wife and I‘ve got some children at home, and my family, they‘re going to be devastated if I don‘t come home. And I want to go home, and that‘s what I‘m going to pray for from now on. You know how I feel. I‘ll go either way. It‘s all up to you.
NORVILLE: Well, Thomas Hamill went home. In fact, He‘s been given the keys to the city of Ridgeland, Mississippi, earlier this month to honor him for his courage and for his inspiration. Mr. Hamill‘s also written a book about his experience, and he‘s traveling around the country to promote it. And no big surprise here, he spends every moment he can with his wife, Kellie, and their children.
When we come back, Senator John McCain, Teresa Heinz Kerry, and then later on, Barry Manilow and Joan Rivers.
But first, read this quote. On the other side, we will answer the question, Who said this? We‘ll be back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP - NOVEMBER 29, 2004)
ANJELINA JOLIE, ACTRESS: I think for all of us—you know, I grew up, I thought, pretty well educated and pretty worldly, and I realized there was so much I didn‘t know about other countries and other peoples. And we shouldn‘t just trust our headlines and just our news programs. We need to really investigate and learn about the world around us and care. And we need to raise our children to really care about children in Africa and children in Asia and their histories and their futures, and—and you know, I think for everybody who—who wants to get involved, I think you should find the thing that calls to your heart. Mine was refugees.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NORVILLE: That was actress Angelina Jolie, who traveled to Sudan, talking about the crisis in Darfur.
We‘re taking a look back at some of our most memorable guests in 2004. Many of the people who made the biggest headlines of the year sat down at some point during the year to tell their stories on this program, and one of them was Brigadier General Janis Karpinski. She was in charge of the notorious Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad. And in those days following the release of those horrific pictures depicting abuse and torture of Iraqi prisoners at the hands of American troops, I asked her who was responsible.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP - MAY 3, 2004)
General Karpinski, I know you‘ve said that you feel that this happened by people who had been a part of your command but beyond your control. But when people look at those pictures and they realize that the people in uniform are American soldiers who were sent there representing a nation that has always stood for freedom, that has always stood for democracy, America‘s reputation in the eyes of many has been hideously besmirched. How do you respond to that? A lot of people would say, I‘m sorry, General, you are responsible.”
BRIG. GEN. JANIS KARPINSKI, U.S. ARMY: And I accept my responsibility to the extent that I should accept the responsibility. They were my soldiers. They were assigned to a unit under the 800th Military Police Brigade.
And I think that the impact is profound. And I have particularly—and worked very diligently with all of the members of the military police brigade from July through February—until the transfer of authority formally took place to hand off the responsibilities to the two incoming brigades, we worked very hard to establish a new standard in all of our prison facilities, to reassure family members, to treat them with fairly, humanely, with dignity, with respect. And for these acts to be—to occur and to turn that effort around is tragic. It‘s a travesty.
NORVILLE: But it must not have stuck. I mean, you look at those photos, I know you recognize some of those faces as people whom you know personally.
KARPINSKI: Yes. And I recognize 3,400 other soldiers assigned to the 800th MP Brigade whose faces I recognize in photographs where they were successful, where the detention operations were successful, where they were doing the right things, facing tremendous challenge, and without existing doctrine in a lot of cases, running right in the doctrine as we were conducting operations. And I see those faces too. And those soldiers were fine, honorable Americans and deserve credit for those efforts that they made.
NORVILLE: Indeed. Well, there are some bad apples in this basket.
There are over 150,000 Americans who are serving honorably in Iraq.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Brigadier General Karpinski was reprimanded by the Army and she was suspended as commander of the 800th Military Police Brigade. Seven police military reservists and an intelligence officer have been charged in the scandal.
Just about a week after General Karpinski appeared on the program, Senator McCain weighed in on Abu Ghraib scandal. As you may remember, Senator McCain himself was tortured as a POW during the Vietnam war.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP - MAY 10, 2004)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN ®, ARIZONA: Yes, that was a very bad time. But the great privilege of my life was to have the privilege of serving in the company of heroes. I observed a thousand acts of courage and compassion and love. And every time I fell, my friends were there to pick me up. And they‘re the ones I know best and love most, and I will cherish the memory of having had comrades such as I did in the prison situation. So that was a bad, terrible episode for me, but my entire prison existence was one that I will look back on my comrades with gratitude, and in some ways, joy.
NORVILLE: Will the men who suffered at the hands of Americans be able to find the same spirit to go on, to forgive, to put in perspective in the way that you have?
MCCAIN: Well, I hope so. I think that there is different people of different faiths and different attitudes, and I was privileged to, as I mentioned, to have—be surrounded by some very strong people, and I‘ll always be grateful to them. And believe me, I was taking the same risks that everybody else was and proved maybe that I wasn‘t a very good pilot.
NORVILLE: What do you think was trying to be accomplished with these pictures that we‘ve seen from the prison in Iraq?
MCCAIN: I‘m not sure because torture in itself—and I‘m not exactly sure what happened. These are only photos.
NORVILLE: Glimpses.
MCCAIN: Yes, glimpses. Physical torture in itself doesn‘t work because the person who was being harmed will say anything that they think their captor wants him to hear. So I‘m not sure what was going on. That‘s part of the hearing process and part of the information we need to find out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NORVILLE: Of course, the year‘s biggest story was the race for the White House. Early on, I interviewed one of the most intriguing people on the campaign trail, Teresa Heinz Kerry, the wife of the Democratic nominee. And true to form, she didn‘t shy away from taking on the critics who questioned her personal style.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP - JANUARY 21, 2004)
I‘ve noticed in so many articles, they always stick the word “outspoken” next to Teresa Kerry‘s name, almost like it‘s a pejorative. Does that get under your skin a little bit?
TERESA HEINZ KERRY, WIFE OF SEN. JOHN KERRY: No, not—I mean, you know, I think those are people who have not made a transition of allowing a woman to be a person. And therefore, if a woman with opinions, earned or otherwise but thoughtful, should be considered well informed and smart, just as a man is, and opinionated, to me, you‘re right, has a more—condescending, if not a pejorative—but condescending.
But you know, there are men who are opinionated, and there are men who have opinions and they‘re smart. And there are women who are opinionated, and the are women who have opinions are not smart. And I think that more than being opinionated, I think I make some judgments based on knowledge. I‘m not a gossipy, opinionated person. I‘m not interested in that.
NORVILLE: Sure.
KERRY: And I‘m also not—I don‘t like to confront or assault people. But when asked something that I know something about, I will tell people what I think.
NORVILLE: By the same token...
KERRY: If that‘s being opinionated, thank goodness.
NORVILLE: Yes. Yes.
KERRY; It‘s time women stopped being called opinionated and men stopped being called well informed.
NORVILLE: There are a lot of women saying amen to that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
As you know, in every campaign, there‘s plenty of winning and plenty of losing long before the election day rolls around, and I will never forget one emotional conversation I had with Joe Trippi. He phoned in from the road after he lost his job as the campaign manager for Democratic candidate Howard Dean.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP - JANUARY 29, 2004)
JOE TRIPPI, FORMER DEAN CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Only force in this country is the people. That‘s what the Constitution says. And this is our shot. And you know, that‘s what I think.
NORVILLE: Still got to be hard for you. I know you say it doesn‘t matter who the campaign manager is, but it‘s just so obvious, when your voice cracks, that this is—this is a sucker punch that—I don‘t know if you saw it coming or not, but it‘s got to feel bad.
TRIPPI: No, it‘s not. It is not. I—it was my decision. And I have a respect for the governor. I have respect for everybody left up there in Burlington that‘s working their rear ends off every day, and I love the grass roots that have made it all possible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NORVILLE: Well, as dark as that day felt for Joe Trippi, he landed right on his feet. He is now a contributor here at MSNBC.
And some of the most memorable moments of 2004 came from people who never, ever expected to find themselves here in the spotlight, but they stood up for what matters most to them. Earlier this month, I talked with David Washington. He risked everything to be reunited with his 4-year-old daughter, Charlotte, after the mother kidnapped Charlotte to France. As 18 agonizing months crept by, David took leave from his job. He spent all of his savings to try to get Charlotte back.
In ,France he was up against a language barrier, up against a community that was rallying around his wife and up against diminishing funds. But David Washington never gave up hope. Sometimes, the good guy wins. David brought Charlotte back to New York earlier this month, and he talked about his hard-won happy ending.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID WASHINGTON, FOUGHT CUSTODY BATTLE FOR DAUGHTER: Never give up. And you cannot—I‘m no hero. I‘m a father. I‘m a parent. And I would never give up as long as there‘s a breath in my body. And you have to understand, you keep pulling away and you will get many people that will tell you cannot. You‘ll never get her back. You‘ll never get him back. You can‘t listen to this. You just act like you have no choice. You must do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NORVILLE: When we come back, Joan Rivers and Metallica reveal their sensitive sides. And Lionel Richie talks about being the father of wild child Nicole Richie.
But first, another chance to guess who said this?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWS BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MONTEL WILLIAMS, TALK SHOW HOST: You don‘t have to live down to people‘s expectations. Live up to your own.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NORVILLE: Those words of wisdom from Montel Williams.
And there‘s something funny about my next guest. Actually, there‘s a lot funny about Joan Rivers. The woman can hardly open her mouth without making a joke, and today‘s comics could take a lesson from her because when it comes to making people laugh, there are no limits from this lady, as I found out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
Are there things that are off limits, I mean, even today?
JOAN RIVERS, COMEDIAN: Nothing that I can say out loud that doesn‘t -
· that I‘m able to say is off limits because I figure if I‘m saying it, then it‘s OK, if I‘m thinking it. And it‘s wonderful. Age—old people actually buy at Costco. How stupid is that?
(LAUGHTER)
RIVERS: You‘re 80 years old, and you‘re buying nine jars of mayonnaise?
NORVILLE: The 48-ounce thing of mayo?
RIVERS: Unless you know God likes sandwiches, you‘re a fool.
NORVILLE: I saw a lady on TV tonight. She‘s 97 years old. She got pulled over and fingerprinted. She‘s worried about her record for the future. She‘s 97. I mean, come on!
RIVERS: It makes me laugh. You want to say, It‘s over, Gladys!
(LAUGHTER)
RIVERS: Lie down and cross your arms. So I talk a lot about that.
NORVILLE: You‘re a big hit at the home, I guess, right?
(LAUGHTER)
NORVILLE: They love you there.
RIVERS: They forget, though!
(LAUGHTER)
NORVILLE: I think she said something not nice, but I‘m not really sure.
RIVERS: I can‘t remember.
NORVILLE: What about celebrities? I mean, you have just had a field day with them.
RIVERS: Yes.
NORVILLE: Is there a joke that you‘ve ever told that when it came out of your mouth, you thought, I shouldn‘t have said that? How am I going to dig my way out now?
RIVERS: Very often!
(LAUGHTER)
NORVILLE: Two seconds ago.
RIVERS: But well, I‘m terribly sorry about all the things I‘ve said about you over the years.
NORVILLE: But I called you on it once. You did. You were very mean to me during the “Today Show” times.
RIVERS: I know. I didn‘t know you then. And we thought that you had pushed out Jane Pauley. Little did we know that she had just dynamited, you know...
NORVILLE: Well, she just moved on to something else on her own.
But I remember coming on your talk show, which—for which you won an Emmy, yet another award that you‘ve gotten, and you said something like that. And I leaned over and I said, “And you‘re sorry now, aren‘t you?”
And you said, “Yes, I am.”
RIVERS: Terribly sorry, because you‘re adorable and it wasn‘t your fault.
NORVILLE: Have you said that to other celebrities?
RIVERS: Yes. Brad Pitt. Tom Cruise. Yes, of course, if I ever say
· I did. Mary Tyler Moore. Didn‘t talk to me for 15 years. I‘d see her at all these things in New York. Right past me. Right past me.
And finally one day, I thought, “Come on.” I said, “Why don‘t you talk to me?”
And she said, “You made a joke about me. You once called me—you said my smile makes you remember The Joker.” Remember, from “Batman?”
NORVILLE: Right.
RIVERS: I said, “No. 1, it was a lousy joke. I‘ve forgotten it. And No. 2, that was 18 years ago. How can you remember?” And now we talk.
NORVILLE: So all is forgiven?
RIVERS: Well, she does look like The Joker.
NORVILLE: Joan.
RIVERS: No, of course not, but I can‘t help it.
NORVILLE: Yes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NORVILLE: Believe it or not Joan Rivers has a softer side and she revealed it when she talked about her husband, Edgar‘s, suicide.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RIVERS: Deborah, you should never know what suicide does to a family. Not at all. To this day, I work so hard in suicide prevention, and you want to say to everybody, “It‘s OK, because what‘s left after suicide is a shattered life.”
NORVILLE: And...
RIVERS: And you‘ve got to find your way back.
NORVILLE: People don‘t know this, but there are times when someone can call the suicide prevention line here in New York City and this one‘s on the other end of the phone talking to them.
RIVERS: Yes. Sometimes.
NORVILLE: That‘s important to you?
RIVERS: Yes. Very. And people will call up and—or I‘ll get a letter and I always stop, always stop, and I make sure they‘re put in touch with somebody. Big priority in my life.
Look at me. It just—you‘re never over it, and you‘re never over the anger. People say, “You‘ll see Edgar in heaven.” I‘ll kill him. I‘ll kill him. He better not come near me in heaven.
What he did—what it does to your child. It‘s—it‘s a very difficult time for you. And that now is 17 years ago, and look how it affects you. Still gets you.
NORVILLE: It never goes away. We‘ll take a break. Back more with Joan Rivers in a moment.
RIVERS: Makeup!
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NORVILLE: And celebrity fashion victims beware. Joan and Melissa Rivers return to the red carpet in January. They‘ll be covering the Golden Globes for the TV Guide Network.
Another timeless entertainer is Barry Manilow.
When you think of Barry Manilow you think about an unstoppable showman who gives audiences classic hits like “Copa Cabana,” but Barry was almost stopped by a serious health scare himself earlier this year.
He told me about what was truly a near-death experience and why he decided to return to live performing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NORVILLE: You had a serious health incident with your heart. How much does that have to do with this decision, too?
BARRY MANILOW, SINGER: I was laying there on the gurney, you know, before they were giving me the paddles. You know, they had to give you the paddles.
NORVILLE: You saw them coming at you?
MANILOW: Well, they said they were going to give me the paddles because my heart would not stop—they call it fibrillation.
NORVILLE: Fibrillating.
MANILOW: And it was like—it was like insane, insanely fibrillating. I felt like I had a flounder in my chest.
NORVILLE: What did it feel like?
MANILOW: I felt like there was a fish in my chest.
Then they hooked me up to these monitors and it looked like a piano score, like that, you know. And so they, in order to stop it they had to do that. They put me out for it, you know.
And as I was laying there, being, right about to be put out, I said to myself, “Whoa. Whoa. This—this is serious, man.” You know?
NORVILLE: Yes.
MANILOW: And I thought—I‘ll tell you what I thought about. I thought about my fans.
NORVILLE: Wow.
MANILOW: I did. I thought about these people who have been so unbelievably supportive for 30 years. Now so, you know, when I got up, you know, it was—I was fine. I was fine. I got a clean bill of health from my cardiologist, you know.
But it stunned me. The whole experience stunned me. And the next thing I did was say, “I have to get back to thank them.”
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NORVILLE: And he is back. Barry‘s just completed a 30-city national tour, and he‘s in great health. His latest album features a new version of the classic “Copa Cabana.” It is now a top 20 hit on Billboard‘s adult contemporary chart.
Still ahead this evening, more musical memories. Destiny‘s Child back together again. Metallica on falling apart but first up, actress Drew Barrymore. Even movie stars have insecurity. We‘ll be back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DREW BARRYMORE, ACTRESS: It‘s like when you walk into a room and you trip, you know? You just—you recover. You excuse yourself. You get so embarrassed all of a sudden. You wish the slate was wiped clean and you could be the cool guy that walked in the room, and you‘re just not.
And...
NORVILLE: You don‘t think you‘re the cool guy in the room?
BARRYMORE: Definitely not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NORVILLE: Ja Rule joins us here tonight. Welcome. I‘m glad to meet you.
JA RULE, MUSICIAN: How are you doing?
NORVILLE: I‘m doing good. I‘ve got to ask you...
JA RULE: I‘m glad to meet you, too.
NORVILLE: Tell me about this. Is this—Is that real? Can we lift it up?
JA RULE: Of course it‘s real.
NORVILLE: Ja Rule is all real. Can I—oh, my lord. That‘s what all those big guys were with you for out there in the green room, right? That is awesome.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NORVILLE: That was Ja Rule bringing on the bling on one of our very first programs.
Over the year we‘ve met quite a few music superstars, but perhaps the most memorable, our conversation with the monsters of heavy metal, Metallica. Sure, they fill stadiums around the world with screaming metal heads, but behind the scenes they‘ve been battling their inner demons.
So what did they do? They went into group therapy, and they let it all hang out in a big-screen documentary.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NORVILLE: I mean, at one point, you are practically screaming at James. You say, “I realize I barely knew you.” And I understand at screenings the audience laughs at that.
LARS ULRICH, DRUMMER, METALLICA: I think they laughed because it‘s kind of a nervous reaction. When I‘ve seen the film with one person, I‘ve seen the film with 300 people. The more intimate you are when you‘re watching, with fewer people, people have a tendency to kind of be a little more affected by this dramatically, do you know what I mean?
In larger groups, I think people are so uncomfortable in they‘re not used to seeing that kind of thing play out on a screen in documentary style, that the easiest place to go with their reaction is kind of laughter. But I think it‘s really a fear of kind of confronting how they‘re really emotionally dealing with what they‘re seeing, you know.
NORVILLE: All of this conversation is the sort of thing you would think you‘d hear on “Oprah.” you guys are the biggest heavy metal band out there. And to hear these kinds of emotions being expressed by Metallica is somewhat surprising.
Kirk, how do you explain this?
KIRK HAMMETT, LEAD GUITAR, METALLICA: You know, I don‘t know how to explain it, you know, without having, like, you know, taking up five hours of your time.
I mean, we just—we arrived at this place because we had to, I mean
· we had to do this because it was essential for the—the—you know, the survival of the band.
I mean, we really didn‘t have a choice. We had to embrace this because the other options were just—you know, unacceptable. You know, the other side of it would be a total—you know, fragmentation of the band and probably us just falling apart and ceasing to exist.
So I mean—we‘re put in a position where it was either—you know, confront these issues, you know, and—and—and—and come together or fall apart.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NORVILLE: Believe it or not, there is Oscar buzz about the documentary, and the band has been nominated for a Grammy for its single “Some Kind of Monster,” which was also the name of the movie.
By the way, everybody‘s getting along just fine now.
Kenny Rogers came on the show during the year to sing and to reminisce about his life and his career, but the big news at the time was the second act in his personal life.
Kenny and his wife Wanda had just become the parents of twins. Justin and Jordan were born one month before their father‘s 66th birthday, and they made their very first television appearance right here on our show.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KENNY ROGERS, MUSICIAN: It‘s such a blessing for me, because this came at a time in my life where I really wasn‘t sure how I was going to handle the last part of my—originally, I didn‘t want this and Wanda and I talked about...
NORVILLE: So why did you go down this road? You‘ve already got three kids 22 to 44 in age.
K. ROGERS: Yes. I just—Wanda and I, when we first met, she said, “Look, I‘m not interested in kids either” and this was a perfect deal.
So—but I told her, I said, “I guarantee you when you hit 32 it‘s going to hit you like a ton of bricks, and it‘s not going to be about choice. It‘s about inner instinct.”
And so boy, on her 32nd birthday, “Do you think we could just have one?” So that‘s where it started. The negotiations started.
But I just—the more I thought about it, these are her child-bearing years, and it would break my heart if someday she woke up and said, “I wish I hadn‘t married him, because I could have had kids today.” So that‘s how it started. It started off as a gift to her on our anniversary.
I‘d gone to a fertility clinic and I was certified that I could, in fact, father children.
NORVILLE: That was your anniversary present?
K. ROGERS: That was my anniversary gift to her.
NORVILLE: The certificate?
K. ROGERS: I put it on a little thing that said, “Now the ball‘s in your court.” And the gift itself meant a lot to her, the fact that I was willing to do it.
And she didn‘t want to talk me into it, but you know, I said, “If you want to do this.”
She said, “I don‘t want to do it that way. I don‘t want to do it unless you want to do it.”
So it was kind of me having to come around to realize that it could be good for me. You know, I‘m one of those that you come to a crossroads, you turn right or left and then you make it work.
NORVILLE: Right.
K. ROGERS: And so now that this has happened, I think this is going to fill an incredible void in my life at some point when I quit performing, and there are very few things that will be able to fill that void.
NORVILLE: Well, it‘s been filled so beautifully, and with two for the price of one.
Let‘s now go to Atlanta, Georgia, to Kenny Rogers‘ home, where we are welcomed by Wanda along with two darling little boys—little Jordan, little Justin. And if you think you‘re seeing double it‘s not just babies. Wanda is there with her identical twin sister, Tanya Kenny.
Welcome all of you. Congratulations, Wanda.
WANDA ROGERS, KENNY ROGERS‘ WIFE: Thank you. Thank you, Deborah.
NORVILLE: Did you have a real concept of how much your life would change when these babies entered the picture?
W. ROGERS: Oh, we—we had no idea. We—first of all, we thought we were just getting one. So it was a bit overwhelming in the beginning. But I have to say, I never thought you could fall in love with two little people so quickly.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NORVILLE: Kenny Rogers is wrapping up his 21-city Christmas tour, and for the gambler it is definitely a full house. He‘s traveling with the babies, with the wife, Wanda, with the twin sister you just saw and two preschool age children and two nannies. That is a very big bus.
In February Kenny Rogers goes back into the studio again to begin recording a new album.
One other musical dad came on the program this year, and it‘s no surprise that Lionel Richie loves his father, Nicole. All dads do.
But what he did to prove that love was pretty extraordinary. Not only did he publicly support Nicole when she was sentenced for felony drug possession in 2003. He actually went to drug rehab with her. And he talked about it openly just a few months ago.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NORVILLE: What was this day like when Nicole was appearing in court?
LIONEL RICHIE, MUSICIAN: To me, it was actually a great wakeup call for her. I know this may sound terrible, but I was glad it happened. Because I could no longer buffer her anymore. And I wanted her to have a real-life experience.
Could I have made it kind of—not go away but a little bit less in the public eye, take the edge off? Yes, I could.
NORVILLE: So you sort of went the tough love approach?
RICHIE: Yes. I remember my father one day, I got stopped for speeding. And he didn‘t come down to pick me up right away. You understand me? That little half an hour sitting there in the cell was, like, all I needed as a wakeup call.
NORVILLE: Right.
RICHIE: For Nicole, she left out of that courtroom, and I could see in her face there was going to be a change.
NORVILLE: What did she say to you?
RICHIE: She said, “I don‘t ever want to do that again.”
And I said, “So what are you going to do about it?”
And she said, “I need some help.”
And I said, “I‘m very happy to hear that.”
Then here are the great words: “Can you help me, Dad and Mom?”
Answer (nods).
NORVILLE: We‘re there for you. And you and Brenda, your first wife, Nicole‘s mom, did something really extraordinary. You went to rehab with her.
RICHIE: We checked in. We checked in with her, which was interesting because I wanted her to understand that this is not her problem alone. This is a family problem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NORVILLE: Nicole Richie and Paris Hilton will be back with “The Simple Life III,” which premieres on the FOX network at the end of January. And Lionel plans a U.S. tour during 2005.
And our musical memories wouldn‘t be complete without Destiny‘s Child. They have conquered the charts with a pretty simple equation. Beauty plus talent times three.
Here‘s Beyonce talking about how it all got started.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEYONCE, SINGER: Years ago, they asked, before we got our record deal, “What is your dream?” And I remember, I was 12 years old, and I said “I just want to maybe go gold, sell half a million records, maybe perform at an awards show or win an award.”
NORVILLE: Right.
BEYONCE: And now, you know, we have three Grammys as a group. I have eight Grammys. All of us, we‘ve been successful. And we‘ve gone far beyond a gold record, so it‘s amazing.
NORVILLE: When you total it up it‘s something like 50 million records between the group and your solo careers added together.
BEYONCE: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NORVILLE: Not bad. They‘re only 23. Destiny‘s Child was recently nominated for a Grammy for their song, “Lose Your Breath.”
And when we come back, playing ball with Cal Ripken Jr. And the “Sesame Street” gang turns the tables on moi.
But first, Jon Bon Jovi.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JON BON JOVI, MUSICIAN: There are bands that survive very well having that tension. They don‘t talk to each other off the stage. I personally wouldn‘t want to go to work like that.
NORVILLE: Right. Right.
BON JOVI: I‘ve shared my most intimate moments with these guys, from when we were a bar band to when we were a stadium band. And then days when the stadium turned its back on us and we had to come back, you know, and you did it together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NORVILLE: Usually, I‘m the one asking the questions, but I once found
myself on the other side of the interview when the Muppets came to visit. \
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GROVER, MUPPET: And now some hard-hitting questions for Deborah.
Deborah?
NORVILLE: Yes.
GROVER: Who does your hair?
NORVILLE: Jody.
GROVER: Jody? OK. Next.
ZOE, MUPPET: Deborah, can you tell me please if you have any memories or nice thoughts about “Sesame Street”?
NORVILLE: Oh, yes, I remember when you guys took us to the Crayola factory and we learned how they make crayons. And I thought that was really neat to see the machine spitting crayons out. So I think that was something I always like was when you took us places to learn how they make stuff.
ZOE: Any favorite colors?
NORVILLE: My favorite is blue. My—go ahead.
ELMO, MUPPET: Miss Deborah?
NORVILLE: Yes, sir?
ELMO: OK. How many children do you have and what‘s their names?
NORVILLE: I have three children. I have Niki, who used to sleep with someone who looked just like you.
ELMO: I remember that.
NORVILLE: You remember that. OK. I have Kyle, and he‘s 9. And I have Mikaela. And she‘s 6.
ELMO: Niki, Kyle and Mikaela, Elmo loves you.
NORVILLE: Thank you, Elmo. They love you, too.
ELMO: We live on Sesame Street. Do you live close by?
NORVILLE: Pretty close. I could probably take a subway to Sesame Street.
ELMO: We would like to have you come visit us.
NORVILLE: I would love that. How did you guys come here? Did you take the subway?
ZOE: Yes.
GROVER: Well, I took a boat.
NORVILLE: And you did what, Elmo?
ELMO: I took a taxicab.
NORVILLE: You took a taxi? Why didn‘t you let your friends come in the taxi with you?
ELMO: Elmo has Miss Ellen and Elmo has Miss Pam in the car with Elmo.
NORVILLE: Miss Pam was in the car with you, too.
ELMO: Elmo doesn‘t go anywhere without adults.
NORVILLE: That‘s very important.
I ELMO: Yes.
NORVILLE: That‘s very important.
ZOE: Well, I like, Zoe in particular, I take the subway.
NORVILLE: You‘re a woman of the people?
ZOE: Yes, indeed. What‘s that?
NORVILLE: That‘s a good thing to be.
ELMO: Deborah Norville?
NORVILLE: Yes.
ELMO: Your best interviewee?
NORVILLE: Thank you.
ELMO: Interviewee or interviewer?
NORVILLE: Interviewer is what you are when you ask me the questions.
ELMO: How was Elmo as an interviewer?
NORVILLE: You‘re a very good interviewer.
ELMO: I get a kiss for that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NORVILLE: First time I kissed a Muppet.
One of the good things about a show like this is you get to learn all
sorts of stuff. And boy, I learned a lot when hall of famer from baseball Cal Ripken Jr. was here to show me and all of you how to field a ground ball.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NORVILLE: Show me some grounders. Let‘s go over here.
CAL RIPKEN JR., BASEBALL HALL OF FAMER: OK.
Basically, we talked about the basic way to field a ground ball.
NORVILLE: Right.
RIPKEN: And that part about getting your butt down. I‘ll throw you the ball. You can throw it to me.
NORVILLE: OK.
RIPKEN: You get your feet about shoulder width apart and then you bend at the knees slightly so you‘re in a good athletic position right now.
NORVILLE: Right.
RIPKEN: And again, if your tail end goes down, then your head can come up.
NORVILLE: You‘re going to be able to see it.
RIPKEN: And you want see the ball here. And also, put your hands out front. So throw me one right here. And then you‘re able to catch it out front with two hands.
Again, and the way not to do it is if you stand like this.
NORVILLE: I‘m going to hit my head.
RIPKEN: Look where my head is. Yes. And then you really can‘t see it too well.
NORVILLE: So that‘s what you‘re doing when you make those three mistakes.
RIPKEN: But since I‘m a professional I can still catch it like that.
But other people can‘t.
NORVILLE: If I‘m going to throw it to you, I‘m going to have my fingers across like this. Stand up, because I might kill you.
RIPKEN: OK. Throw it in the air. There you go. Now you have the right rotation.
NORVILLE: It‘s straight. OK.
RIPKEN: Across the seams. Show me what with the seams would be.
NORVILLE: With the seams?
RIPKEN: Show me how good of a student you are.
NORVILLE: OK.
RIPKEN: Very nice. See, I couldn‘t catch it?
NORVILLE: I got an error on Cal Ripken!
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NORVILLE: It is the only error he has probably ever made.
We‘ll be back with a holiday treat right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NORVILLE: And that is our program for now. I‘m Deborah Norville. Thanks so much for joining us as we‘ve looked back at some of our more memorable guests of 2004. We appreciate you spending a little bit of your holidays with us, and we thank you for watching throughout the year.
Now here‘s Kenny Rogers to sing us out. All of us here wish you a happy and healthy holiday and all the best in the new year. We‘ll see you soon.
(MUSIC)
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
END
User may not reproduce or redistribute the material except for user‘s
personal or internal use and, in such case, only one copy may be printed,
nor shall user use any material for commercial purposes or in any fashion
that may infringe upon MSNBC and FDCH e-Media, Inc.‘s copyright or other
proprietary rights or interests in the material. This is not a legal
transcript for purposes of litigation.>