CHUCK TODD:
This Sunday, after the conventions, a 65 day sprint. Republicans, attacking Joe Biden.
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
He is the destroyer of American jobs.
CHUCK TODD:
Looking to the future.
VICE PRES. MIKE PENCE:
We will make America great again, again.
CHUCK TODD:
Rewriting history.
DONALD TRUMP JR.:
Fortunately, as the virus spread, the president acted quickly.
CHUCK TODD:
And trying to make the election a choice, not a referendum.
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
This election will decide whether we save the American dream or whether we allow a socialist agenda to demolish our cherished destiny.
CHUCK TODD:
My guests this morning: White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows and the co-chair of the Biden campaign, Congressman Cedric Richmond of Louisiana. Plus: deadly scene in Portland. Pro-Trump and Black Lives Matter protesters clash overnight. Gunfire erupts during one confrontation and a man was killed. We'll have the latest. Also, the police shooting in Kenosha, Wisconsin, of Jacob Blake --
JACOB BLAKE SR.:
They shot my son. Seven times.
CHUCK TODD:
-- leads to violent street scenes and the fatal shooting of two protesters by a teenage vigilante. NBA players speak up --
DOC RIVERS:
It's amazing to me why we keep loving this country and the country doesn't love us back.
CHUCK TODD:
-- and walk out, soon to be joined by players in other major sports leagues. I'll talk to former NBA player Etan Thomas and Sue Bird of the W-N-B-A. Joining me for insight and analysis are: NBC News Chief White House correspondent Hallie Jackson, New York Times correspondent Michael Schmidt, Yamiche Alcindor, White House Correspondent for PBS NewsHour, and former Republican Governor of North Carolina Pat McCrory. Welcome to Sunday. It's Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history. This is Meet the Press with Chuck Todd.
CHUCK TODD:
Good Sunday morning. We're going to get to all the political news in a moment, but we’re going to start with the deadly clash in Portland, Oregon. Pro-Trump and counter-protesters clashed there overnight. Fistfights broke out, and at one point gunfire erupted during a confrontation and a man was killed. Joining me now is Mike Baker of The New York Times, who has been covering these events in Portland. So Mike, tell us what you saw, what you witnessed. And if you can, who shot this individual?
MIKE BAKER:
Yeah. So, I mean, last night there was a huge gathering of Trump supporters out in the suburbs of Portland. And they had this vow that they were going to go into Portland waving flags as sort of a caravan. And initially, the plan was to, sort of, circle around the highways, but some of the people in the caravan peeled off and went right into downtown, where there was a whole large crowd of counter-protesters there, ready to confront them. And so, you know, we saw fist fights on the streets in some cases, people in the backs of pickup trucks shooting paint balls into the crowd, other people throwing things back onto the trucks where the pro-Trump supporters were there, driving around. And then eventually, there was a smaller conflict on the streets where someone was shot. And it looks right now like the person who was shot had a hat with the insignia of the group Patriot Prayer, which is a right-wing group here in the Portland area.
CHUCK TODD:
Mike, do we have an idea of where these gunshots came from? Did they come from protesters? Was it law enforcement? Was it -- is it possible it was accidental? Or do we just not know any information on this?
MIKE BAKER:
I mean, there's sort of a distanced video of the scene. It occurs on a street, it looks like there's some sort of small crowd milling around. And so it appears to be some sort of conflict that occurred between a couple people, and that's when the shot was fired -- the shots were fired.
CHUCK TODD:
Overall, what has been -- how would you describe the situation over the last month in Portland?
MIKE BAKER:
You know, it's changed a lot. I mean, you recall in July when the federal government came in with their forces wearing camouflage and pulling people into unmarked vans. And that drew out a huge crowd. And the protests went from, you know, just a couple hundred people, up to many thousands of people who were coming out at that point. And then, since then, it's really sort of come down a lot. I've been here most of the week, out with a lot of the protests at night. And it's usually been a couple hundred people. You know, they're much smaller numbers, but they’re also a crowd that’s been still -- you know, the more hardcore group that's out there protesting, doing a direct action every night. That includes, you know, spray painting or lighting a police union building on fire. And at the time, you know, it's because they're smaller numbers, the police would come in and, you know, clear them out, make a whole bunch of arrests. Police have made dozens of arrests the past week. And it's really kind of kept things into a much more contained way than it was a month ago -- compared to a month ago.
CHUCK TODD:
Until we saw what happened last night, anyway. Mike Baker from The New York Times. Really appreciate you getting up very early for me on the west coast and getting us your eye-witness account. Thanks, Mike.
MIKE BAKER:
Thanks for having me.
CHUCK TODD:
Well, the events in Portland came at the end of a volatile week in this country, one that began with the police shooting of Jacob Blake in Kenosha, Wisconsin; the shooting deaths of two protesters in Kenosha by a teenage vigilante who came in from out of state; and of course the Republican National Convention. President Trump and other speakers presented a far different picture of America than Democrats did a week earlier. Not one in which President Trump was responsible for mishandling the coronavirus and tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths but instead one in which the virus is largely a thing of the past, the president having saved millions of lives with a swift response and the violence in the streets a sign of what will happen in a Joe Biden presidency. Joining me now is the White House chief of staff, Mark Meadows. Mr. Meadows, welcome back to Meet the Press, sir.
MARK MEADOWS:
Good to be back with you. Thanks, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
I wanted to start with this, that the president on Thursday night painted a picture of what he said would be Joe Biden's America. And I look at the violence this week, Mr. Meadows. This is in Donald Trump's America. How much responsibility should voters be giving the president for his inability to keep the streets safe?
MARK MEADOWS:
Well, I mean, you can try to reframe it that way, Chuck, but that's just not accurate. I can tell you that when we look at Kenosha and the phone calls that were made to the governor of Wisconsin, we offered help. Help was denied. Obviously, there were multiple gunshots and people lost their lives. We made a repeated call then the next day, sent in National Guard, FBI agents, U.S. Marshals to restore peace in Kenosha, Wisconsin. And that's what needs to happen in Portland. You know, it's interesting to see you frame Portland that way. After 94 days, perhaps now we're going to act because someone was shot last night. But to suggest that somehow it's been peaceful in Portland, Chuck, is just not looking at the facts. We've had over 200 anarchists. And they're not peaceful protesters. These are people that every single night conduct violent acts. And it is in Democrat cities. You know, you want to talk about Donald Trump's America. Most of Donald Trump's America is peaceful. It is a Democrat-led city in Portland that we're talking about this morning who just yesterday denied help once again from the federal government. And so, listen, we need to get to the bottom of this. We need to make sure that we hold people accountable. And ultimately, we need to make sure that these people that are conducting these acts go to jail. We've had over 97 federal law enforcement arrests that were conducted in Portland. But largely the DA there in Portland, Chuck, you know, he says, "Even if you accost a police officer, we're not going to enforce that." It's just not what most Americans believe should be happening in our cities.
CHUCK TODD:
You made an interesting comparison. I guess you're saying that -- is there parts of the country that the president doesn't govern? I mean, is the president only in charge of just places where he has supporters? You sort of leveled a weird charge there --
MARK MEADOWS:
Well, Chuck. Chuck. You’re – Chuck --
CHUCK TODD:
-- you’re saying “Well, these are Democratic cities.” I’m just trying to understand, does the president not believe he has responsibility of governing and leading the entire country?
MARK MEADOWS:
Well he does govern and lead the entire country but, Chuck, you're smarter than that. These are local law enforcement efforts that can be supported by a federal backstop, whether it be National Guard or the FBI. And so when we look at that as we look in Portland, it's not Donald Trump's DA that’s saying to stand down, it's not Donald Trump that is saying that we need to look the other way, it's the mayor of Portland. So let's at least have a true version of what's happening in these cities. You know, if your viewers are going to tune in this morning, why don't you show them the letter from the mayor of Portland where he says, “No thanks for federal help,” and yet we have someone who lost her life overnight. I can tell you that we are ready. In fact, the president is ready to make sure that we provide whatever law enforcement and support that we can, and it's not this president who has said “let's defund the police,” Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me ask you this. If the president is cheering on people that are going to go into Portland, those protesters, the president called them great patriots. Do you think the president should be telling his supporters, "Deescalate, don't show up with long guns, don't play vigilante"? We haven’t heard the president try to -- he only wants to deescalate the protests he doesn't like. He has not talked about deescalating the protests that support him that are showing up with long guns and certainly, trying to at least give a visual incentive to create a conflict?
MARK MEADOWS:
Listen, when we look at the Constitution, the Constitution is very clear. It gives the right to peacefully protest. It also gives the right to, for assembly. But when we look at that and we somehow suggest that in certain cities, that these particular areas are off limits. It's not who we are as a nation. You know, when we look at what happened in Washington, D.C., the largely peaceful protests that happened on the mall were certainly not something that anyone condemned. And yet, what we saw were some of the splinters that came off of that that were running around in the streets of Washington, D.C., accosting Senator Rand Paul that you know about, but many, many others. That is not what the Constitution protects. And it's not what we should be endorsing, whether you're a Democrat, Republican or unaffiliated or in between. We need to make sure that we --
CHUCK TODD:
I understand that.
MARK MEADOWS:
-- properly, we properly address that, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
I’m trying to -- right, but this young man that took matters into his own hands, the president has yet to condemn these actions. Why?
MARK MEADOWS:
Well, you just had the report there, Chuck. What, you're talking about the young man last night in Portland --
CHUCK TODD:
Who shot --
MARK MEADOWS:
-- that was shot?
CHUCK TODD:
No, I'm talking about the young man who shot two protesters in Kenosha.
MARK MEADOWS:
Listen.
CHUCK TODD:
I'm talking about Kenosha --
MARK MEADOWS:
The president has been--
CHUCK TODD:
-- where the person, where the person --
MARK MEADOWS:
-- very clear.
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah.
MARK MEADOWS:
The president's been very clear, whether it was with that individual or Mr. Blake or anywhere else, he has asked for proper investigations. In fact, I was in the Oval Office when he brought the attorney general in at 9:30 in the morning when Mr. Blake was shot just the previous evening. And when he looked at that, he says, "What I want to do is make sure that there's a proper investigation." That's why we have laws and that's why we have a justice system. And Lady Justice has a blindfold on that should look at all of these things --
CHUCK TODD:
Right.
MARK MEADOWS:
-- in a way that makes sure that justice is brought forward. But for you to try it out on a Sunday morning show or for me to do that on a Sunday morning show is not what our justice system is set up to do. What we all always must do is make sure that the rule of law is there, not just because it's a rule of law, but because it creates a safer community, whether it's in Kenosha, Wisconsin or anywhere else.
CHUCK TODD:
Right. I'm just trying to understand -- the president denounced the violence on one side of protesters he didn't like, but why not denounce what this young man did? Why not say, "Please don't take matters into your own hands"? The president has not said that. One of his chief supporters in the media has actually defended this. Isn't it incumbent on the president to help deescalate some of this violence on his side as well?
MARK MEADOWS:
And the president is -- you know, you say one side or the other. Let me tell you where the president is. The president's on the side of law enforcement and the rule of law. And he's been very consistent in that. He said, "Any governor, Republican or Democrat, any particular area can request help of the federal government. We're willing to come in. We're willing to provide additional assets, as we did in Kenosha, whether it's FBI, whether it's operational control vehicles, whether it is the National Guard. We're willing to do that." He has been very consistent. So the message to your viewers this morning is clear. The president believes what we need to do is make sure that we have exactly what resources are available for every single city. And if you're having a problem, governors, we want to make sure that we can help you with that.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me ask you, I'm running low on time, I know that perhaps you and Speaker Pelosi may be talking today. The Democrats believe they've come down and they would like to meet you halfway. They believe halfway should be $2.2 trillion, maybe $2 trillion. Are you willing to bring up the number that the president will support?
MARK MEADOWS:
Well, we've brought up a number. I had a conversation with Speaker Pelosi. And even on her $2.2 trillion counter offer, she can't tell the American people, nor me, what is in that. I can tell you what is in the offer that the president has made and he's willing to sign. Enhanced unemployment at levels she would agree with. Enhanced help for small businesses at levels she would agree with. Literally, help for daycare and hospitals at levels she would agree with. And help for schools at levels she would agree with. Here's the problem is. She puts forth a number, suggests that she came down, and yet she's willing to turn down $1.3 trillion of help that goes to the American people because she would rather them have nothing than to give way on what --
CHUCK TODD:
Mr. Meadows, that can’t --
MARK MEADOWS:
-- her fantasy objection might be.
CHUCK TODD:
But what you're suggesting can't pass the Senate, right? The Senate doesn't have --
MARK MEADOWS:
No, it can pass --
CHUCK TODD:
-- a majority support --
MARK MEADOWS:
-- the Senate.
CHUCK TODD:
-- for that as well right now.
MARK MEADOWS:
I mean, that would require Senator Schumer. As you know, anything in the Senate requires both Democrats and Republicans. But Speaker Pelosi, if she worked with Chuck Schumer, I can tell you all of those things that I just mentioned --
CHUCK TODD:
Right.
MARK MEADOWS:
-- are available for the American people and the speaker, Pelosi, is saying no.
CHUCK TODD:
Are you going to bring your number up? Or is that your -- is $1.3 trillion your final offer?
MARK MEADOWS:
Well, listen, we're not going to negotiate here because the speaker's been very clear. When she said --
CHUCK TODD:
Okay.
MARK MEADOWS:
-- $2.2 trillion, she said, "Don't do anything at all," Chuck. I said, "What does the $2.2 trillion represent?" You know what her response was? "I'm not going to tell you. Let me fill in the blanks." That's not a proper negotiation, or not is it anything that the American people accept.
CHUCK TODD:
Okay.
MARK MEADOWS:
In fact, many of her rank and file members don't even accept it.
CHUCK TODD:
Mark Meadows, the chief of staff for the president. I appreciate you coming on, sharing the perspective of the White House. Thank you, sir.
MARK MEADOWS:
Thank you, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
And joining me now is the national co-chair of Joe Biden's campaign, it's Congressman Cedric Richmond of Louisiana. Congressman Richmond, welcome back to Meet the Press. I want to start with a column from George Packer, who writes the following and says this. "Ordinarily, it's the incumbent president's job to show up at the scene of a national tragedy and give a unifying speech. But Trump is temperamentally incapable of doing so. And in fact, has a political interest in America's open wounds and burning cities. Biden then should immediately go to Wisconsin." Cedric Richmond, is Joe Biden going to be going to Wisconsin tomorrow?
REP. CEDRIC RICHMOND:
I don't know the answer to that. But also, I think that Vice President Biden has a responsibility to not make things worse. To make sure that the police on the ground can accommodate his visit, that his visit wouldn’t be a distraction and his visit wouldn't make things worse. And I think that he is weighing all of those things right now.
CHUCK TODD:
Given what we saw overnight in Portland, given what we've seen take place all week in Kenosha, what are your concerns about where the Biden campaign is right now on this issue in particular?
REP. CEDRIC RICHMOND:
Well, I don't have a concern where we are on this issue. I mean, we have been very clear that police reform in this country is a necessity. And that unarmed Black people being killed by the police should be low hanging fruit. And if we could just get President Trump to acknowledge that and to push for real police reform, then let's address the issue of why NBA players did not play in basketball games. The fact that people are waking up and speaking out on Jacob Blake's death. I mean, that's the issue. And I think that, without a plan from the White House to address it, it's just really sweeping it under the rug. And you hear the rhetorical gymnastics from his chief of staff that was just here. Vice President Biden has been very clear. He put out a plan on police reform. And I think that that should be the subject we're talking about.
CHUCK TODD:
When it comes to the violence in the streets now, who should be held responsible?
REP. CEDRIC RICHMOND:
Those perpetrating the violence. Look, Vice President Biden has been very clear that peaceful protests are a bedrock of our democracy. But what I don't want to do, Chuck, is to ever confuse or compare peaceful protesters with those committing crimes. Those are not peaceful protesters. Peaceful protesters are out there trying to make this country a more perfect union, trying to make sure that their Black and Brown daughters and sons are safe and survive police encounters. Those that are out there committing crimes are not a part of those peaceful protests. And they should not be labeled that way. And I think that law enforcement has to deal with it. But what was very interesting just now, when you talked to the Chief of Staff Meadows, he said that President Trump is on the side of law enforcement. Well, the question becomes, well, who's on the side of justice? Who's on the side of Constitutional policing? It's not about law enforcement or protesters. It's about making sure that police are held accountable when they violate people's Constitutional rights when they shoot unarmed Black people. And if the president could convene that conversation, then I think that we would be in a better space. And so he keeps talking about what Biden's America would look like. Well, this is Trump's America. He has to own this moment. He has to own the incompetence around coronavirus and 180,000 American deaths, almost six million infections. Almost 38 million jobless claims. He has to own that. This is his America. So how do you break this country and then run for reelection saying, "I want to fix everything that I just destroyed"? And so that will be the message of the campaign and we're going to have to make that case. But at the same time, I think America's in a real fragile point. And I think that you will hear Joe Biden speak. You will hear him try to heal this country because the president just doesn't have it in him.
CHUCK TODD:
I'm curious what you made last week of all the testimonials from Black men at the Republican National Convention and how much of an impact do you think it might have? I want to show this chart of the presidential vote among Black men going back to 2008. And there has been a consistent erosion of support for the Democratic party from Black men. A high of 95% in 2008. Just 80% of the vote in 2016. And there clearly was a concerted effort by the Trump campaign to try to appeal to Black men. What do you make of the effort and what should the Biden campaign do to counter it?
REP. CEDRIC RICHMOND:
Well, I'll tell you this. Donald Trump very effectively in 2016 raised the question to Black men, "What do you have to lose?" I think now Black men see clearly what they have to lose. They can get killed and the president won't say a word, won't utter Jacob Blake's name, will not talk about police reform. If you look at unemployment, Black unemployment is twice that of white unemployment. The fact that almost 40% of Black businesses will not survive his COVID-19 incompetent response, Black men see that. And so you will see us as a campaign talk directly to Black men. We will not make assumptions. We will not take them for granted. We're going to talk directly to them. So whether it's about mass incarceration, economic opportunity, home ownership, college affordability, increasing education funding, all of those things. So we're going to go where Black men are and we're going to talk to Black men about their issues. But I think they see clearly what it is they have to lose now.
CHUCK TODD:
I want to move onto the economy a bit. The last time you and I spoke, we talked about -- you told me you thought the Democrats hadn't done a good enough job reminding people where the economy was in 2016. Reminding people of the economy that Donald Trump inherited. At the time, this was before con -- this was before the two big speeches. You saw what the RNC is pushing when it comes to the economy. Do you think Democrats have done any better of a job since we last talked about reframing where the economy was in 2016?
REP. CEDRIC RICHMOND:
Well, I think a little bit of that has happened. I think a lot more has to happen after Labor Day. We have to make it very clear to people that this president has the worst job creation record under any president in United States history. He's lost six million jobs. The Obama-Biden era created 16 million jobs coming out of the Great Recession. This president just does not have an economic plan. And I think Democrats have to home in on that. The one thing Trump does very well is says the same thing over and over again. Most of the time, it's a lie, but he says it over and over again and people start to believe it. We have to continue to say over and over again that this president has destroyed and wrecked this economy, just like everything he has ever touched in his life. And so we need to point out that there are farmers that are filing bankruptcy at all time highs. That the unemployment numbers are where they are. Small businesses are closing their doors every day. And so yeah, it's incumbent upon us to keep reminding people of that.
CHUCK TODD:
Okay. Congressman Cedric Richmond, the national co-chair for the Biden campaign, thank you for coming on and sharing the campaign's perspective. I appreciate it.
REP. CEDRIC RICHMOND:
Thanks for having me.
CHUCK TODD:
When we come back, the events last week in Kenosha, Wisconsin. A police shooting, vigilante violence, and pro athletes telling the world they will not remain silent. That's next.
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. The NBA was back in action last night with a slate of playoff games, including the Milwaukee Bucks versus the Orlando Magic. Those two teams were supposed to play Wednesday, when the Bucks walked out to protest the police shooting of Jacob Blake in Kenosha, Wisconsin. The walkout by those NBA players led to similar actions by athletes in other sports leagues, professional and college, including those not dominated by African American players. It was the most striking example of professional athletes demonstrating a willingness to use their celebrity and economic power to leverage social change. And joining me now are former NBA player Etan Thomas and current WNBA all-star Sue Bird, who's also the vice president of the Women's National Basketball Players Association. Etan and Sue, welcome to both of you to Meet the Press. Etan, I want to start with you. This week, we saw this groundswell. Some call it a boycott, a wildcat strike, if you will. The number of teams that participated, I want to put up on screen. Nine playoff games, 11 baseball games postponed, six WNBA games, four NHL playoff games, the MLS, the NFL, even college practices. What made this different, Etan? What do you think made it where the sports world united?
ETAN THOMAS:
Well, first of all, thanks for having me on today. And it's interesting because, you know, now after everything has happened, you're seeing a lot of people criticizing the NBA players for voting to go back to playing after their two day strike or boycott, like you said, or however you want to call it. And I just, I just honestly think that's ridiculous. They have gone above and beyond the call of duty, both the NBA and the WNBA and with the MLB standing in solidarity. They made their, their powerful statement heard really around the world. You know, and they did it all together. And then they formulated the social change fund. And they're going to be focused on advocating for police reform and police accountability and voting initiatives and criminal justice reform and a lot of great things. So they're doing their part. But it's also not the job of professional athletes to solve the policing problem in this -- that we have in this country. You know, that should be the focus of all the people that we just saw at the Republican convention this past week. And I, you know, I would say, instead of Donald Trump screaming "law and order" at the American citizens exercising their right to vote -- to protest, that he should be screaming "police accountability." But I bet we probably won't hear that.
CHUCK TODD:
Sue Bird, a boycott takes money out of the hands of owners, takes money out of the hands of sponsors, takes money out of the hands of leagues. And it, I assume that there is an intention there that, okay, we want you to be paying attention. What role do you want to see owners and sponsors of sports leagues play, because you're sending a message to them too?
SUE BIRD:
Right. You know, I do think the WNBA is in a unique position in that we have a lot of support from our owners. In fact, I know myself, a bunch of other players from other teams got calls directly from their owners saying, "We support whatever you want to do." So I think a lot of it is more so about, like you said, the corporate sponsors, trying to get them to understand where we stand, what we believe in, what we're fighting for. But this isn't new for us. We've been doing this for years, and years, and years. And I think what was so special about this moment was an opportunity, like Etan said, for all of these leagues to be unified. And that’s, that’s when, you know -- we've learned in the WNBA when we're unified as one voice, that's where the impact is felt for us. So to have all these leagues together, I mean, you've seen what's happened. Again, like Etan said, it's been around the world.
CHUCK TODD:
I want to put up a quote from Natasha Cloud of the Washington Mystics. She said something very interesting. She goes, "The t-shirts, the courts, the names on the back of the jerseys, the media blackouts to only talk about Breonna Taylor and say her name and to say his name, those things are all important. But while we're talking about it, there are still Black men and women being killed every single day. And so at what point do we take a stand? And at what point do we be drastic?" Etan, I've got to think you understand that feeling that that Natasha's expressing there. It's sort of, like, you know, we just talked about it, they're doing a lot, but there are some players that feel as if they're still not doing enough.
ETAN THOMAS:
Well, you always want to do more. And just to make the point clear, this has nothing to do with being for the police or against the police. That's just the right redefining the issue. To give you an example, me and my wife have been blessed to have three beautiful children. And it's not anti my children for me to hold them accountable. It's actually pro my children for me to do that. Anti them would be for me to say they can do whatever they want to do. So, for instance, I love my baby Sierra. You know, that's my girl. But if baby Sierra came to me and said, "Daddy, I want to have chocolate chips for dinner," I wouldn't be supporting her by telling her that she can go have chocolate chips for dinner, you know what I mean? That's not supporting her. And Trump and the right believe that you have to allow the police to do anything that they want to do and then that equals supporting them. And every aspect of society needs rules and regulations. Applauding someone and saying, "Everything that you do is wonderful" is not supporting them. It's actually enabling them. And, you know, so I would say Trump is actually acting more anti police than what he's claiming to be.
CHUCK TODD:
Sue Bird, do you understand Natasha's feeling there about wondering, "Okay, should we be doing more? Is there something more drastic we should be doing in our positions of influence"?
SUE BIRD:
Yeah, I do because, you know, this is a unique experience, being in this bubble, or “wubble” as we like to call it. And you're around 144 other players for our league. And so, in listening to these Black players talk about their experiences, how emotionally, mentally, you name it, draining it's been, and how, you know, to be honest, traumatizing and retraumatizing. You know, to see a man shot in the back seven times. I think it brings up a lot, and rightfully so. And what happens is you feel, like Etan said, it's never enough. You want to do more. And I think what was great about having all here, getting us all together, we got to talk through these things and understand it takes time. And all you can do is what we've been doing. We've actually been doing the work. And to be honest, I've had a front row seat with, you know, my girlfriend Megan Rapinoe. She took a knee four years ago. It took four years for that to come back around. So personally for me, I like to share that message with the players because, while it doesn't feel like you're doing enough and while people are going to come at you and be, like, "Well, what are you going to do about it." Just you have to, like, find solace in the fact that we actually are doing the work.
CHUCK TODD:
You know, Etan, you've probably discovered this as an active player. Speaking out in the NBA as individual players was a bit more common. You didn't see it a lot in the NHL and in Major League Baseball. And, and I just wonder, how important do you think that -- here're two sports that are whiter and certainly their fan bases are very white, the importance of having the sports world united across racial lines?
ETAN THOMAS:
Oh, it's definitely important, especially in these times. Right now, you know, when you see from the right there's so much of a divisive type of a tone. I mean, just looking at the Republican National Convention, you know, everything is divisive. And so sports has the opportunity to be able to bring people together. And so -- and it's a matter of empathy. So some of these sports that you say, you know, as you say are whiter, you know, they might not be dealing with the same things that I'm dealing with as a Black man in this country. You know, and people have to understand, you know, every single time that something like this happens, the conversation that happens in Black homes. You know my son Malcolm is 15. He just turned 15 years old. And I'm terrified for him. Like, literally, every single time something like this happens, I can't sleep at night. And I have to go and tell him again, again, you know, the rules of engagement. "When you're stopped by the police, make sure that you have no sudden movements. That, you know, you have to deescalate a situation that you didn't escalate in the first place. And the only reason why it's escalated is because of the color of your skin.” So you can't do what you see your white friends doing because they can cuss out the police, they can go off, they could do whatever they want to do. They could not comply, everything like that, and they will get to live. And that's a tough situation to be in. So when you’re hearing athletes, a lot of people were saying, "Well, why is LeBron feeling so emotional about this? Why is everybody feeling" -- because the fact that you are making millions of dollars in the NBA doesn't save you from being Black. And that's the difference. So when the policeman pulls me over, I have to follow a set of guidelines. It doesn't matter what I've accomplished in life or who I am or, you know, what tax bracket I'm in or anything like that. I'm a Black man and I'm a threat.
CHUCK TODD:
Sue Bird, very quickly, we heard some politicians don't like it when the sports world speaks out on social issues. What do you say to those critics?
SUE BIRD:
I mean, for me as a female athlete, the one thing that I've come to realize is we're judged on everything except our sport. We've been judged because we're Black, gay, because we're women. Nobody talks about us playing. So you fast forward, you know, ten, 20 years of this and we've developed an identity. And we're being authentic to it. And so for us, when people say, "Stick to sports," it's kind of, like, yeah, 20 years ago, we tried. You wouldn't let us. And now you're saying that? So it makes no sense to me.
CHUCK TODD:
Sue Bird, Etan Thomas, I really appreciate both of you coming on and expressing your perspectives on this. It's a conversation that I hope continues.
SUE BIRD:
Thanks for having me.
ETAN THOMAS:
Thank you.
CHUCK TODD:
When we come back, two conventions down, two competing visions of America, and 65 days to go to Election Day. The panel is next.
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. The panel is joining us, NBC News Chief White House Correspondent Hallie Jackson, New York Times Correspondent Michael Schmidt, author of the new book “Donald Trump v. The United States.” Look for scoops galore on that one. Yamiche Alcindor, White House Correspondent for PBS NewsHour, and former Republican Governor of North Carolina and radio host Pat McCrory. Welcome to all of you. I'm going to start with showing our apocalyptic campaign frame that both Trump and Biden created at their conventions. Take a look.
[BEGIN TAPE]
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
He is the destroyer of America's jobs. And if given the chance, he will be the destroyer of American greatness.
JOE BIDEN:
He's failed to protect us. He's failed to protect America.
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
The hard truth is you won't be safe in Joe Biden's America.
SEN. KAMALA HARRIS:
Donald Trump's failure of leadership has cost lives and livelihoods.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
Hallie Jackson, this isn't a campaign where you're wondering, "Jeez, boy, both sides are kind of running on the same message." It's pretty clear. And I'll tell you, we heard those messages. Two people were killed -- we had three people killed this week in essentially what may be political protests. We're entering uncharted waters here.
HALLIE JACKSON:
I mean, you're completely right, Chuck. And it's something that we're going to be hearing a lot more about, from, especially the person that I cover, President Trump. I'm told by sources over the weekend, as I was coming on the air with you, Chuck, that "violence in the streets," quote, unquote, will be one of the three central themes to the president's campaigning and the vice president's campaigning moving forward over the next 65 days or so, along with what they consider to be a focus on what they see as an improving economy, as well as talking about the coronavirus and what they are doing to try to mitigate the pandemic, if you will. Whether or not that'll be effective messaging for people remains to be seen. But this issue of violence is one that you've already seen the president, his allies, his surrogates talking about. They believe truly that this is going to be something that will motivate people to get to the polls. It's a message the president is expected to take on the road, Chuck. I can tell you that he is going to be traveling a ton. Over the weekend, he was telling allies that he wanted the best and most aggressive travel schedule. In the words of one person I talked to, he knows he "can't win from inside the building." So it's a message the president will be taking out on the campaign trail heavily over the coming weeks and days. Look for him to be in Florida. Look for him to be in North Carolina. Obviously, Michigan, Wisconsin. I've heard a lot of talk about Minnesota as well, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
Yamiche, where are we right now? And where's the Biden campaign in this moment in your mind?
YAMICHE ALCINDOR:
The Biden campaign agrees with essentially one thing that President Trump said during the RNC, which is that this is the most important election in the history of the country. Both of them are making the case that this election is going to be changing lives. And as Cedric Richmond told you, they see this issue of unarmed Black people being killed in the streets as low hanging fruit, that America should be able to get this right. So they see this as really pitching this forward and saying, "This is the chaos." The deaths that we're seeing from COVID as well as the deaths that we're seeing from African Americans at two and a half times the rate of white Americans at the hands of police, that this should be the central issue. We heard over and over again they pitched this as a battle for the soul of America. That's the messaging that you're going to hear over and over again. And they're really gonna be making the case that President Trump failed miserably on the coronavirus. I thought it was interesting as I was covering on the South Lawn of the White House today that gathering of people with no masks, sitting shoulder to shoulder, cheering on the president on this hot, on this hot summer night in D.C. The White House transformed completely into a convention space. The president started making the case that the United States was one of the best places when it came to death rates, in America. So his idea and the plan there is going to be to try to paint this rosy picture and to speak about the virus almost as if it's in the rear view mirror. We, of course, know that that's just not true. The United States is second only to India in the number of new cases. We're seeing every day about 42,000 cases, along with the death rate being one of the worst, if not the worst, in terms of modernized, industrialized countries. So those two things, race and the coronavirus, are going to be top of mind for Joe Biden. And, of course, he's going to be hitting the campaign trail after Labor Day as well, going to all sorts of states that he sees as critical.
CHUCK TODD:
Pat McCrory, how does the president not -- walk a line and not look like he's rooting for violence? Kellyanne Conway on Friday making the case that somehow, that she believes this helps them. There's this line and it -- there's at times you look like, from a political perspective, it’s almost, they can’t -- it's, "Ooh, the violence can be helpful politically." And that can come across as almost looking like he's rooting for it.
PAT McCRORY:
Well, back in May when I was on this panel right after the sad Minnesota riots and protests, I gave a warning, "Do not underestimate the anarchists." And I actually think a lot of Democratic mayors and Democratic governors and even Joe Biden underestimated the anarchist and the feeling that people will have, especially the middle class, both Black and white, against people who attack our police, who want to defund our police, who come across as anti-police, when most people in America are in favor of the police. They're not in favor of bad shootings, terrible, horrendous shootings. But what's happened is the anarchists have infiltrated peaceful protest and have gotten no pushback from the liberal wing of the Democratic party or anyone in the Democratic party. And it's put the Democrats on their heels regarding the issue of public safety. So public safety is now a major issue in this presidential campaign.
CHUCK TODD:
You know, Michael Schmidt, look, I think Democrats would respond to Governor McCrory and say, "That's one half of the problem. There are also right-wing instigators." It does seem as if right now there are some bad instigators almost looking to take advantage of this moment maybe for nefarious reasons, maybe for other reasons we're not talking about, you know? And this, to me, is the real danger of this, of this political moment we're in as a country.
MICHAEL SCHMIDT:
The thing that I picked up on this week as this was all playing out with the conventions is just this idea that things are tightening. As we came through the summer, as the president struggled to communicate amidst all of these crises, there was this sense that Biden was really pulling ahead. But in the past few days coming out of this, there's just this prevailing feeling amongst folks. And maybe it doesn't bear itself out in every poll and everything, but that this is a much more unpredictable situation than we thought maybe just a few weeks ago. And that when we look back at 2016 and you look at Hillary Clinton's numbers at that point, compared to where Biden is now, it's just that this is, this is not a sure thing for anyone or for anything. And that this is going to be an incredibly unpredictable fall. And whether it's the virus, the politics or the protests, there is, there is just an enormous amount of unpredictability as we head forward.
PAT McCRORY:
Chuck, I want to also say, I didn't say right wing or left wing, it's anarchy. And either side--
CHUCK TODD:
No, I understand that.
PAT McCRORY:
--can underestimate anarchists. And if we do, we're in trouble as a nation.
CHUCK TODD:
No, no, no, no. And I'm glad you clarified that. A lot of folks just automatically throw the anarchists onto the left wing, and I think that that’s a -- there seem to be instigators here messing around outside of, outside of either sort of political movement at this point.
PAT McCRORY:
Anarchists don't care. They just want to cause violence.
CHUCK TODD:
Exactly. They want to burn it down. All right, guys. I'm going to pause it here. When we come back, both political parties are fighting to register new voters in battleground states. But there's another group of voters that could prove decisive. Wait ‘till you see that. That's next.
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. Data download time. As in every presidential election year, both parties are fighting to register new voters ahead of November. So let's look at how they're doing in four key battleground states, starting with Pennsylvania, one of the three states that narrowly put President Trump over the top in the Electoral College. Since Election Day 2016, Pennsylvania's added just over 922,000 new voters to the roll. This is according to data from TargetSmart. And Democrats have an advantage. They've registered 132,000 more voters than Republicans. That's not insignificant in a state where President Trump won by less than 45,000 votes. Then there's North Carolina, where there is also a competitive Senate race on the ballot this year. Overall, there are 1.3 million new voters. And again, Democrats have an edge of more than 56,000. Arizona, there are more than a million new voters and there, things have been a bit closer. Democrats only hold an 11,000 vote edge in new registrants. And finally, the state of Florida. 2.4 million new voters since Election Day 2016 with Democrats holding a 59,000 registrant advantage. So in those four states, the Democrats have a lead in new voter registrations. But there's another wildcard. There are another 35% of new voters in those states that are not affiliating with either political party. And these folks are young. Take a look at the percentage of these unaffiliated voters who are under the age of 40. 63% of new registrants in Arizona, 61% in Pennsylvania, 69% in North Carolina and 56% in Florida. And what do we know about younger voters? Well, they don't appear to be Trump fans. Candidate Trump lost voters under 40 by double digits in 2016. So add it all up and these new voter registration numbers suggest an additional challenge that President Trump and his party faces going into the final stretch of this campaign. When we come back, both President Trump and Joe Biden plan to address the violence in the streets this week -- how that could impact this campaign going forward. That's next.
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. Panel is back. We are going to hear from the president in Kenosha Tuesday. We expect to hear from Joe Biden tomorrow. We don't know where he's going to do that. Pat McCrory, if you were Joe Biden, would you try to get to Kenosha tomorrow, before the president?
PAT McCRORY:
It's high risk, high reward. You just don't know what type of environment you're entering when you come into a situation where there's been a lot of violence. As a mayor and governor, I did try to go in there. But you have to be very careful about the circumstances because, often, you cannot control the message.
CHUCK TODD:
Yamiche, what does Biden need to say tomorrow? What should -- how should he be framing his remarks?
YAMICHE ALCINDOR:
Biden should say that, "I understand that African Americans and people of color in this country are fed up with being treated like second class citizens." I've talked to so many people, including Jacob Blake's own father, who told me he felt like his son was treated like an animal. And that he understood that the forces that led to his son being shot, they were part of the "diabolical consequences of chattel slavery." Those were his words. So I think if Joe Biden wants to really connect with African Americans and people in this country, he's going to have to understand that there are people who are hurting and who understand that millions of dollars, a good job, a great degree, none of those things protect you from someone criminalizing your body because you're an African American. And frankly, President Trump will also have to do that. Instead, we heard the White House this week call the protests by the NBA absurd and silly. And, of course, Kellyanne Conway saying, "More chaos and violence works in our favor." So Joe Biden could find the lane for himself to say, "Those people are rooting for violence. I'm here to do this and be with you and connect with you."
CHUCK TODD:
Hallie Jackson, it was an interesting phrase that Mark Meadows used with me. "It's mostly peaceful in Donald Trump's America." It was a jarring line to hear because he's currently the president. There shouldn't be a distinction there. Do you expect that to be the frame for the rest of this campaign that they attempt?
HALLIE JACKSON:
It already is, Chuck. And I don't think that's going to change over the next several months. Congressman Meadows also said something interesting to you earlier in the show, where he talked about how the president is on the side of law enforcement and on the side of law and order. And I think that is the framing that you're going to see when President Trump goes to Kenosha on Tuesday. The campaign and, frankly, administration officials that I've talked to think that this is a positive message for the president in the sense that they think it is effective to people who are feeling fearful, frankly, to people in President Trump's base. So instead of going out and doing what Yamiche is talking about, right, trying to talk about, for example, building bridges to members of the Black community who understand that they have been part of this institution of systemic racism, President Trump has not done that in the last three-and-a-half years. There's no indication that's going to change on Tuesday when he goes to Kenosha. Instead, the framing is going to be about that thin blue line that you've heard him, the vice president, other members of the campaign talk about. And Chuck, this morning, nobody is backing away from those remarks that you talked about from Kellyanne Conway. In fact, the president's surrogates are defending those comments and leaning into it. And I think it is just going to be more of what we'll see over the next 65 days.
CHUCK TODD:
You know, Michael Schmidt, it’s, perhaps it's events on the ground that are doing this, but if, if violence is what's being talked about and not the virus, that’s probably not, it's probably not good news for Joe Biden.
MICHAEL SCHMIDT:
I just think the remarkable thing about what the president has done here is that he's essentially running as if he's not in charge of the country. You tried to raise this question earlier with the chief of staff, just about the issue of, well, isn't the president in charge? And the president's sort of running as if he is sort of continually the outsider. And it's just another example of the president's unprecedented approach to the presidency. It's something that I focused enormously on in the book. It's not just the president's unusual use of power, but it's what that causes and the products of that. And in the case of what I write about, it's about how the people around the president have been forced into this highly unique situation where they are trying to contain the president, trying to stop the president and standing between the president and what they think is potentially the abyss.
CHUCK TODD:
Hey, Pat McCrory, were you uncomfortable with the South Lawn being used for a political advertisement? And what would you have said if Barack Obama had done it?
PAT McCRORY:
Oh, I probably would've criticized it. We're all rather hypocritical. But one thing I -- about the NBA too, I admired Muhammad Ali and Bill Russell and Arthur Ashe. But the NBA, the corporate messaging on the courts I think is a turnoff, especially while they're wearing shoes -- I think that needs to be corrected.
CHUCK TODD:
All right. I've got to end the conversation there. Thank you all. Thank you, everybody, for watching today. We'll be back next week because if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press.