KRISTEN WELKER:
This Sunday, hostage release. Israel and Hamas agree to a pause in fighting as the first groups of hostages are handed over.
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
It’s only a start, but so far it’s gone well.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Does this breakthrough deal signal a turning point in the conflict?
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
I don’t trust Hamas to do anything right. I only trust Hamas to respond to pressure.
KRISTEN WELKER:
My guests this morning: National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan and the Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, Republican Congressman Mike Turner of Ohio. Plus, countdown to Iowa. The Iowa caucuses are now just 50 days away.
FMR. GOV. NIKKI HALEY:
We are now in second place in Iowa.
GOV. RON DeSANTIS:
Everybody's attacking me.That should show you who they care about.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Can any of Trump's rivals catch up and stop him? And, actor and advocate. Selma Blair who was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis five years ago is using her voice to fight for the rights of all those living with disabilities.
SELMA BLAIR:
I want equity. I want justice
KRISTEN WELKER:
Joining me for insight and analysis are: Leigh Ann Caldwell of The Washington Post, Republican strategist Brendan Buck and Symone Sanders-Townsend, former chief spokeswoman for Vice President Kamala Harris. Welcome to Sunday. It’s Meet The Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good Sunday morning. It took weeks of excruciating secret negotiations involving U.S., Israeli, Qatari and Egyptian officials, and personal pressure from President Joe Biden to persuade a reluctant Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu to accept a four-day cease-fire that has so far freed 26 Israeli hostages from Hamas. This morning, two senior administration officials tell NBC News the Biden administration is “disappointed” Americans have not yet been released but say they are hopeful three Americans will still be among the 50 civilian women and children freed as a part of this deal.
[START TAPE]
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
We also remember all those who are still being held and renew our commitment to work for their release as well. Two American women and one 4-year-old child, Abigail, who remains among those missing. We also will not stop until we get these hostages brought home.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
After a short but serious delay on Saturday, 13 more Israelis, five women and eight children, were freed. In return, Israel released 39 more Palestinians from its prisons and aid organizations have been able to scale up fuel and aid deliveries for Gaza. Pressure on Israel continues to mount tens of thousands gathered in Tel Aviv Saturday night accusing Netanyahu of not doing enough to bring about 240 hostages home. The deal also comes as Democrats are increasingly divided over President Biden’s embrace of Israel, as the civilian death toll in Gaza continues to grow. A Biden administration official says: "this deal was a Biden deal, not a Netanyahu deal."
[START TAPE]
OMER BAKHAR:
I don't know what to feel right now because it's a weird situation – situation but I am happy and excited.
EYAL NOURI:
We saw the jeep passing by and we recognised Adina, my aunt, in the jeep. And then we started shouting.
ALANA ZEITCHIK:
I don't know that there will be words. I think it will be a lot of tears. A lot of happy tears I hope.
SHAHAR MOR:
We want this chapter to be completed so we can, you know, lick our wounds and start to recuperate as a family.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
And joining me now is National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan. Welcome back to Meet the Press.
JAKE SULLIVAN:
Thanks for having me, Kristen.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, thank you for being here, Jake. We have seen these emotional and wonderful scenes of families being reunited as the hostages have been returned. I know the administration has said that it is hopeful that Americans will be returned soon. Can you tell us, do you expect American hostages to be released today?
JAKE SULLIVAN:
Well, Kristen, the initial hostage deal involves the release of women and children. And there are three Americans in that category: two women and one young child. And we have reason to believe that one of those Americans will be released today. But until we see her out safely from Gaza, in the hands of the authorities and ultimately in the hands of her family, then we won't be certain. But we have reason to believe that there will be one released today.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Are you talking about the little girl, four-year-old Abigail Idan, who of course celebrated her birthday in captivity, Jake? Is that the American you expect will be released today?
JAKE SULLIVAN:
We are hopeful that Abigail will be released. We think it's long past time that this little girl who just, as you said, celebrated her fourth birthday, is back home with her family. Of course, she tragically lost her parents in this vicious, brutal terrorist attack on October 7th, but back with other family members. I'm not in a position sitting here at this moment to confirm that. But I will tell you, Kristen, that this is unfolding as we speak. And hopefully, literally any hour now, we will know which of the Americans is out. We have a sense of who it is, but I just am not in a position to confirm it, because we want to make sure that the release goes off as indicated, as we expect. And at that point, we'll be prepared to speak to it, quite joyfully speak to it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I understand this is an incredibly fluid and sensitive situation. But so that our viewers understand, have you actually seen the list, Jake? And is there at least one American name on it? Are there more?
JAKE SULLIVAN:
Well, I started by saying, "We have reason to believe." And I wouldn't be sitting here saying that if I wasn't confident. I'm not going to get into exactly what we've seen. But I will tell you that we are in extremely close touch, down to every possible detail, with both the Israelis and the Qataris, as well as with the Egyptians. So we feel very fully apprised of what is likely to unfold today, but we proceed with caution because we're dealing with a terrorist group here. So we can't be absolutely certain about what is going to happen until it happens. And so we will await the actual transfer of the hostages today, at which point we can all speak with greater definition to exactly what happened.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And so there are two other American hostages who you have said you would anticipate would be released as a part of this latest deal, and then seven other Americans still being held. Jake, what can you tell us about the other two, who you have signaled will be a part of this deal, and then the other seven who are still being held in captivity, held hostage?
JAKE SULLIVAN:
Well, Kristen, this is a great question. What we know is that there are three Americans who fall in the category of the first deal. That is two women and a child, as I said before. We know that those three have been missing, presumed hostages. But we have not gotten proof of life on any of them. And we do not know for certain that all three of them are still alive. That being said, we do believe – we are hopeful – that there will be additional Americans released. And remember that there is another day to this deal, so we will see another list tomorrow. And then, we are working with all sides on the possibility that this deal gets extended to additional hostages beyond the initial 50. That ultimately is up to Hamas. If Hamas is prepared to release additional hostages, Israel has indicated as part of this agreement that it is prepared for additional days in a pause to the fighting. And so the ball really is in Hamas's court, in terms of its willingness to step forward and release additional hostages, including potentially releasing additional Americans.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And I do want to talk to you about potential next steps. But obviously, the Red Cross was a part of this deal, being able to let them in to see the hostages. Have they been able to do that, Jake? And what have they been able to glean about the remaining hostages? Do you know whether the additional seven Americans are alive? And the rest of the hostages, more than 100 now?
JAKE SULLIVAN:
We don't have that information yet. As part of the agreement, as you just alluded to, by the end of the fourth day – that is by the end of tomorrow – we expect to have that information. But as I sit here this morning, I cannot confirm anything about the condition of the additional Americans being held there, as other countries and as Israel cannot confirm the condition of their citizen hostages. But it is part of the agreement that that be done by the Red Cross, and we expect that to be fulfilled.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And do you know the exact number of hostages that remain, Jake? And what other groups, in addition to Hamas, are holding them?
JAKE SULLIVAN:
We've been very straight from the start, Kristen, as has Israel and as have other countries, that we do not know the exact number of hostages who are alive at this time being held in Gaza. And we won't know that until those hostages are physically in the hands of authorities and ultimately in the hands of their loved ones and their families. And so we have tried to be direct, straight, and candid about what we know and what we don't know. We also are aware that it's not just Hamas holding hostages. Palestinian Islamic Jihad, another terrorist group that participated in the brutal massacre on October 7th, is holding some. And other groups who are not directly affiliated but have loose connections to Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad are also holding hostages. So part of the effort here is to ensure that all of those groups somehow get connected to a deal in which every last possible hostage in Gaza who is still alive gets turned back over and reunited with their families.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Jake, do you have any concern that the U.S. so publicly negotiating a hostage release sends a message that Americans are willing to negotiate with terrorists, even if indirectly, and that that could ultimately put the lives of other Americans at risk on the world stage?
JAKE SULLIVAN:
Look, we've been in the business since the beginning of the Biden administration – and President Biden has taken a leadership role in this – in taking steps to bring home Americans who are unjustly detained or being held hostage overseas. And we've been willing to make hard decisions to do that because as the president said, he has no higher priority than to bring Americans home. When the United States had one policy or another, people were taking Americans hostage. So from our perspective, this isn't about precedent. It isn't about policy. It's about a simple principle: if there's an American citizen being held overseas, we are going to do everything in our power – using diplomacy, using influence, using leverage – to be able to get those people home safely to their families. That is the commitment of President Biden.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Israel has said that it would extend the pause in fighting for every day that ten additional hostages are released. Is it your expectation at this time, Jake, based on your conversations, that this pause in fighting will be extended beyond four days?
JAKE SULLIVAN:
I think it is certainly a possibility. And we would like to see that happen.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Is it likely, Jake?
JAKE SULLIVAN:
As I said before, ultimately that's up to Hamas.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Is it likely, though?
JAKE SULLIVAN:
Well, it's hard for me to handicap that, Kristen, because this is Hamas. Hamas is going to make the decision about whether they're prepared to release another ten hostages. Israel's put its cards on the table. They're prepared to extend the pause in fighting. So the ball is in Hamas' court. Will Hamas step up and release an additional ten hostages? If they won't, then they are the ones choosing to bring an end to the pause in fighting, not Israel. And that's something that we will watch very carefully. But President Biden has been on the phone just in the last 24 hours with the emir of Qatar. He will be speaking today with the prime minister of Israel. So he's continuing to work this hour by hour to see if we can secure those additional days of pause and those additional hostages coming home to their families.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you about a recent op-ed by Senator Bernie Sanders, who says, quote, "the indiscriminate bombing” because of that has led to an untenable amount of civilian deaths. He is becoming a growing part of progressive lawmakers who are asking that aid to Israel be conditioned on a plan to mitigate civilian deaths. President Biden called this idea a, quote, "worthwhile thought." So, would the administration support that?
JAKE SULLIVAN:
Well, in that answer, President Biden acknowledged the idea. But he went on to say that his approach – President Biden's approach – which was high-level private diplomacy, has actually generated results. It has generated the introduction of a substantial and growing amount of humanitarian assistance to civilians in Gaza, the exit of thousands of foreign nationals, including American citizens from Gaza, and the first pause in the fighting since the conflict began, and the release of a set of hostages, 50 hostages. All of that has been the product of presidential engagement, private engagement, hard diplomacy. That's the course that President Biden set us on.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But–
JAKE SULLIVAN:
And that is the course –
KRISTEN WELKER:
But Jake –
JAKE SULLIVAN:
–that is delivering results right now.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Jake, just to be very clear, should we take his words that it would be a “worthwhile thought” to mean that the president is open to signing legislation that would provide aid to Israel that comes with conditions?
JAKE SULLIVAN:
I thought the president really couldn't have been clearer when we answered the question. He acknowledged the idea, and then he said, "But the way that I have conducted our diplomacy in this situation is actually producing results."
KRISTEN WELKER:
But is that a yes, Jake?
JAKE SULLIVAN:
That's what he's done so far, and that's what he's going to do.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Is he open to it?
JAKE SULLIVAN:
Again, he is going to continue to focus on what is going to generate results. And as he said in the press conference quite clearly, and as you can see from the fact that for the last two days we've seen hostages released, the approach that he is taking, direct presidential diplomacy behind closed doors with the Israelis and with our Arab partners, that's what's generating the kinds of results that we're seeing right now. That's the course that he's on.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan, thank you so much for your time this morning. Really appreciate it. When we come back, the chair of the House Intelligence Committee, Republican Congressman Mike Turner of Ohio joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. Just this morning, Egypt has received a list of 13 Israelis and 39 Palestinians scheduled for release today, the third group in the four-day truce deal. As the national security advisor just told me, the White House has reason to believe that group could include at least one Israeli-American dual citizen. Here at home, aid to Israel is still uncertain. House Republicans passed a $14.3 billion aid deal earlier this month, and new Speaker Mike Johnson has vowed to back separate legislation combining Ukraine assistance with tougher border security measures. Joining me now is the Republican Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, Congressman Mike Turner of Ohio. Welcome back to Meet the Press, Congressman.
REP. MIKE TURNER:
Thank you for having me.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Thank you so much for being here in person on a very big day. We really appreciate it. So let's start with what we know about this release of hostages. In addition to the three that the White House has said they anticipate will be released, there are still seven other Americans who are unaccounted for. Is it your expectation that those seven Americans, based on the intelligence that you have, are still being held hostage? Do you know if they're alive?
REP. MIKE TURNER:
Right. Well, you know, it's been very curious that the administration is so quick to claim this is a Biden deal. And as you just heard from Jake Sullivan, he continues to say we know every detail, but then he can't answer your questions as to those details. You know, our expectation is there are ten Americans that are being held out of the 240 hostages, people who are missing. No one really knows the number. Jake – Jake Sullivan was saying that he doesn't even know the number, nor do we know proof of life. And, you know, you would have thought this, if they're claiming credit, if this is a Biden deal, that those are details that we would have conditioned this process through. Because the aid that's going into northern Gaza, that’s a condition that Hamas required, includes American aid. So, you know, obviously I think everyone's very concerned. But one thing I think that's also important here is that – to understand that the word "hostage" barely describes what these people have been through. I mean, these are not detainees. These people were not in Gaza. They were in their homes in Israel. They witnessed the brutal murdering of their – their families, neighbors and friends and then were taken, kidnapped from their homes into Gaza and have been held in brutal conditions. And as we know, some of the hostages have been killed. So I'm certain these – these hostages, these individuals that have been kidnapped and being released, went through a very brutal time.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I want to ask you more about the intelligence that you have. But to your point about whether this is a Biden deal, you heard Mr. Sullivan just say to me that the details are very sensitive. Does the president deserve some credit given that he has been working the phones, on the phones with the leaders of Qatar, Egypt, Israel to try to get this temporary pause in the fighting?
REP. MIKE TURNER:
Right. I think people would expect nothing less. And – and certainly, it appears that the administration has stepped up for that. And that’s been important.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So do you give him some credit?
REP. MIKE TURNER:
Absolutely. I think what's curious, though, is that this is a period that's fraught with peril. For them to be so quick to claim credit for a deal that we don't know what's going to come out of this, I just think it's very dangerous.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Speaking of the perils here, do you have any concerns that Hamas is delaying the release of American citizens to use them effectively as bargaining chips, Congressman?
REP. MIKE TURNER:
Exactly, which is why I'm concerned that the Biden administration didn't make it a condition of this deal that Americans be in the first hostages that are released, especially since American aid is going into Gaza right now, into northern Gaza as part of the conditions that Hamas had. I think, you know, when the administration says they know every detail and then tell you that they don't even know if they're alive, that is certainly concerning. Also, the aspect as you raised in the interview is the Red Cross is supposed to be having access now to the remaining hostages. So we're supposed to be getting information as to, you know, what their condition is, who is being held. Because the hostage lists today are based on people who are missing.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And Jake said that he expects that ultimately that will happen, potentially by tomorrow. Why is that so critical, and do you anticipate it will happen by tomorrow? Are you getting any information that points to that?
REP. MIKE TURNER:
Well, I think it’s very – you know, this is a war zone. And so it's very -- unknowns are rampant. And the other aspect here is that we're not even sure that Hamas has all of the hostages. There are other radical groups within Gaza that might have possession of some of these hostages. We're not sure which ones are alive, where their bodies may be, in either Gaza or where Hamas has held them. How will, you know, the Red Cross be able to tell us, you know, who's alive and who's not? And that is part of certainly the terrible distress that these families go through. People who have been told that their relatives are deceased are now finding they're alive. People who believe they are alive may found out tragic news.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I want to ask you, big picture, about how Israel is conducting this war. As you know, the IDF has taken the head of Al-Shifa hospital in for questioning. Israel, the United States have said that their intelligence points to the fact that Hamas is effectively embedding itself inside Al-Shifa, inside other hospitals. Do you think the United States should release its intelligence publicly or at least more information publicly to help make the case to people globally who are saying too many civilian lives have been lost here?
REP. MIKE TURNER:
Right. I think we have to remember that right now, this is a war zone. And Israel has openly stated that its goal is to take out Hamas and Hamas' control of Gaza. Hamas still has control of Gaza. When this cease-fire period ends, as Netanyahu has said, other conflict will continue. And that conflict will continue, as Israel has stated, until Hamas is removed. Obviously, one of the issues that you have to look at in releasing intelligence is that since this is a war zone and you're trying to enter into that dialogue of what has happened, you still have things that can impact the outcome. You need to be cautious.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Given that, though, one AP report described what has happened in Gaza as a, quote, "uninhabitable moonscape." Just to push you a little bit, should there be – does there need to be more transparency about the intelligence that Israel has, about the intelligence frankly that the United States has about Hamas?
REP. MIKE TURNER:
Well, I think it certainly is beneficial to tell the story of what Hamas is, what it does.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Would you support more transparency? Should more intelligence be released?
REP. MIKE TURNER:
Certainly on the issue of Hamas because the Palestinians are as much prisoners to Hamas in Gaza. You know, once Hamas won its election, however rigged it may have been, to take over Gaza, there's never been another one. They are absolutely being suppressed by Hamas itself.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you about the growing global pressure on Israel to commit to a full cease-fire because of concerns about the high civilian death toll. This comes, as I was just talking about, amid growing calls for US aid to Israel to be conditioned on a plan to limit civilian deaths. Is that something you would support?
REP. MIKE TURNER:
Well, I think the White House has been clear and I think US policy has been clear of, you know, lessening the Palestinian casualties that are not Hamas. And I think certainly Israel has made it clear in the areas in which there's going to be conflict and trying to get people to leave those areas to lessen those casualties.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But would you vote for that if it came to you, if it was introduced as legislation, conditional aid to Israel?
REP. MIKE TURNER:
Well, I wouldn't propose it, but I think it does accurately reflect US policy.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay. Let me ask you about Iran. We know that Iran obviously funds Hamas. Do you see this as a proxy war between the United States and Iran?
REP. MIKE TURNER:
Oh, absolutely. And they see it as their proxy. I mean, they state it is. And they state that it is their proxy war against the West.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Should the US take action against Iran if it continues to escalate?
REP. MIKE TURNER:
Well, I think we currently are taking action against their proxies. I do think –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Direct military action?
REP. MIKE TURNER:
Against their proxies. I do think that the administration should step up its effort in protecting our own troops in Syria and Iraq who have been subject to attacks from Iranian proxies. But you're right. These are absolutely Iranian franchises funded, trained and stood up as terrorist organizations to attack the West.
KRISTEN WELKER:
President Biden, as you know, has asked for a robust aid package that would include aid to Ukraine, aid to Israel, Taiwan, funding for the Southern border. Is this something that you anticipate could pass by the end of the year?
REP. MIKE TURNER:
I think it'd be very difficult to get it done by the end of the year. And the impediment currently is the White House policy on the Southern border. The White House in this package, making – including it as a national security package, recognizing that the Southern border is a threat, put in funding. But it's going to need policy changes. Congress is going to require that there be laws changed to make certain that the border returns to its prior state, you know, perhaps “Remain in Mexico,” other types of provisions that would secure the Southern border.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you quickly about the newly-elected Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson. He just made the decision to release, and he started the process, 40,000 hours of footage from January 6th. The Capitol Police have expressed real concerns that that could jeopardize the security of the Capitol. Do you think it was responsible to release all of the footage from January 6th?
REP. MIKE TURNER:
I think it's important for Americans to know the truth. This has been fraught with an unbelievable amount of misinformation and untruths. And I think this, you know, when you see the footage yourself, it's going to give you an understanding of what was there and what occurred that day. Because we're currently only, you know, depending upon really partisan descriptions of what happened. Now the American people can see.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, and speaking of which, some of your Republican colleagues have cherry-picked some of the images to frankly further some conspiracy theories. Do you – are you comfortable with that?
REP. MIKE TURNER:
I think it's been cherry-picked by both sides. I mean, certainly the January 6 Commission itself –
KRISTEN WELKER:
But let me ask you about your colleagues.
REP. MIKE TURNER:
– gave just one view.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you about your Republican colleagues in the wake of this footage being released. Are you comfortable with, for example, Marjorie Taylor Greene posting, suggesting that this was an inside job by the Capitol Police? She removed the tweet, of course. But does that make you uncomfortable?
REP. MIKE TURNER:
You'll have to talk to Marjorie Taylor Greene about that. But what I will say is I think it's important that the speaker has taken this step because now people can see the truth.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Congressman Turner, thank you so much.
REP. MIKE TURNER:
Thank you for having me.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Really appreciate it. Great to have you here in person. And when we come back, the first nominating contest of 2024 is just 50 days away. Can any of Trump's rivals catch him? The panel is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The panel is here. Leigh Ann Caldwell, co-author of the Washington Post's “Early 202,” and anchor of Washington Post Live. Brendan Buck, former advisor to House Speakers Paul Ryan and John Boehnor. And Symone Sanders-Townsend, host of “Symone,” and former chief spokesperson for Vice President Kamala Harris. Thanks to all of you for being here. I appreciate it. Leigh Ann, I want to start with you. This is a huge test for President Biden. And obviously now, the pressure's on to release the Americans. How is this playing for him politically, do you think?
LEIGH ANN CALDWELL:
Well, obviously it'll be great if Americans are released with those hostages. But my sources are saying that President Biden also doesn't give a – get a lot of credit for his successes, not only on this, but on a whole host of things. So that does concern Democrats on Capitol Hill. But meanwhile, you have a divide, especially among the Democratic Party and among Americans about the president's stances on Israel. And now you're seeing a lot of pressure from members of Congress, not only for a cease-fire, also for conditioning aid as you also talked about, and also putting more public pressure on Netanyahu in this realms of this war. So it's still a very difficult situation for President Biden politically.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Symone, let's talk about some of this pressure that Leigh Ann is describing. Your former boss, Senator Bernie Sanders, of course you worked for him during 2016 –
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
Worked for a lot of them.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I know you have. He wrote an op ed that I referenced, but let me read a part of it. He says, "If asking nicely worked, we wouldn't be in this position. The only way these necessary changes will happen is if the United States uses the substantial leverage we have with Israel. The blank check approach must end." Again, he is saying that any aid to Israel, as Leigh Ann is saying, needs to be conditional. You heard National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan not rule out that the president would support such a deal.
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
Yeah, he didn't rule it out. I think – I think having have worked for President Biden is very important to – to – to understand where your contours are. But I think what Jake did say is that he believes the president has been vindicated in his strategy, which is what the president himself said when asked about this conditioning aid to Israel. And said it's a worthwhile conversation. But I think that if we had done that, I don't think we'd have gotten as far as we have gotten today. I think that the White House is very well aware, though, that conversations about conditioning aid to Israel are not just relegated to the most progressive parts of the Democratic Party apparatus. On Capitol Hill, there are moderate Democrats that are also engaging in these conversations. Senator Sanders on November 15th held a meeting amongst the Senate Democratic Caucus to talk about Israel and Hamas. Brought in a number of different folks in that meeting, including Dennis Ross, who was a former peace negotiator for the Middle East region. And I – I think the question is are these conversations going to turn to more legislative actions with more moderate members. And potentially they can, which is also why, again, Jake Sullivan left room on this one.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, it's a really great point. And, Brendan, what's also still notable that reference to a blank check is what we've heard from Republicans. Some Republicans who've said, "We don't want to write a blank check to Ukraine." So there are divisions happening in both parties. And you just heard Congressman Turner say he's not confident that they can get this big, robust aid package done by the end of the year. How is this playing, broadly speaking?
BRENDAN BUCK:
Yeah, it's remarkable. In the immediate aftermath of – of the – the attack on Israel, it felt like it was just going to be a matter of days or weeks before aid was passed through Congress. And now here we are, and we're really no closer. And I do think it is that Ukraine aid that is the biggest holdup. There are clearly divisions on Israel. And – and what that looks like is an open question. But the president made a bet that he needed to use the leverage that he has on Israel to get funding for Ukraine, which has been stalling for a long time. And now that's become so complicated. And we hear a lot about a blank check and what the difference is between the two. I think the big difference is we already spent $113 billion in Ukraine. And there's a lot of wariness to continue sending foreign aid. Foreign aid is never popular. But now Ukraine has – has gone on for so long. And the longer something sits out, the harder it is to pass.
LEIGH ANN CALDWELL:
And now they're tying it to border policy as well, an issue that Democrats and Republicans have not been able to agree on for decades. And so this entire package is really in jeopardy.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It's truly one of the most fraught issues, border policy. Leigh Ann, let's – let’s talk about 2024 a little bit and domestic politics if we could. President Biden obviously being tested on his handling of this foreign policy crisis, but also the economy, a top issue. He's been getting low marks. We have seen, though, as we head into the holidays, the rate of inflation is dropping. The rate of gas prices are dropping. And I'm hearing, based on my conversations, a lot of Democrats are saying his messaging needs to shift away from Bidenomics to really understanding Americans who say, "We're not feeling this yet."
LEIGH ANN CALDWELL:
Yeah, Bidenomics has really been kind of a negative – become a negative word, especially among Democrats, cause it's not working. I was texting with some members – Democratic members of Congress last night just trying to get a read over the holiday weekend what they're hearing at home and what people are saying. And these members said that it is just not looking good for President Biden politically out there. That he would probably lose some swing states if – if the election were held today. So they have a lot of work to do to, once again, like I said, try to get – get credit for the successes that he's had over the past two years, which he keeps on getting blamed for everything bad that's happened.
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
I mean, this point Leigh Ann is making, I think the Biden campaign also understands that. I spoke to Quentin Fulks earlier this week and I asked them, "Look, you've spent a lot of money on ads." And they are at a record – record number investing in African American and Latino ads. They've gone up earlier and deeper than any presidential campaign before. However, the door knocking and the organizing, the people – people organizing in communities, has not ramped up yet. And I asked, "When is that going to happen?" Because the folks are not giving the president credit for things that they can feel. And I think Quentin noted to me, he said, "Look, I understand that. And we are hoping to get people on the ground as soon as possible in the early new year." So it is something that I also think the campaign is looking at.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Quentin, of course, is with the campaign. What's so interesting about that, we've seen the president's poll numbers really drop among those key groups, including voters of color. Brendan, let's talk about Republicans. The Iowa caucus is 50 days away, starting today, by the way. Mark your calendars. Can Nikki Haley catch up to Trump? He was in South Carolina last night. He was in her first state. He's beating her in her state. But she says she can take it. She's very confident, she says. But can she?
BRENDAN BUCK:
Well, she's clearly run the best campaign of anybody not Donald Trump. She has – she has asserted herself in the debate. She has shown herself to be serious and understand the issues. The problem is she's still very far behind, and you have a divided other half of the – of the party. And I think as long as someone named Ron DeSantis is still in this race, it's very hard for her to get there. Now, Donald Trump is below 50% in Iowa generally in the polls. And if – if an incumbent is below 50%, you typically think of them as vulnerable. And I consider Donald Trump really the incumbent here. The problem is no one has been able to figure out an attack on Donald Trump that sticks. We've had millions and millions of dollars run on, and none of them have really worked. If she can figure that out, perhaps. But she's got a long, long way to go.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, she sure does. Symone, you've been in the trenches in campaigns that are underdog campaigns. Do you think Nikki Haley can come back? She's had three strong debate performances. Her poll numbers are shooting up. But she's still double digits behind Trump.
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
Yeah, look, I think the fact that there's so many other candidates in the race and the race has not dwindled is something that is not playing to Nikki Haley's advantage. Now the question is, if Ron DeSantis ends up dropping out, do his voters go to Nikki Haley? And I think the data suggests that they do not, that those voters go to Donald Trump. And so it is probably advantageous for Nikki Haley for Ron DeSantis to continue to stay in this race. I think what's so interesting about her campaign to me is that she’s been very clear on a number of things how she feels. Ukraine, foreign aid, the deficit, right? But she's a little not as clear about what she thinks when it comes to abortion. And I think you're going to have to get a more concrete answer as it goes on.
BRENDAN BUCK:
We need to create a dynamic where it is not just someone running for second place. And I think that people are dismissing the DeSantis, Haley as who's running for second. If DeSantis gets out and it is just truly two candidates, I think that will change the perception of the race. Still a long shot for her to win, but I think that is a necessary thing. And I think all these big-dollar donors who are rushing to Nikki Haley also need to be working to get DeSantis to drop out.
KRISTEN WELKER:
That could be a game changer if he did. Leigh Ann, let me ask you this over the on the Democratic side, the big X-factor, will there be a third-party candidate. Senator Manchin told me he's not ruling it out, but he's just acknowledged it would be uphill.
LEIGH ANN CALDWELL:
And – and he's known that it would be uphill. But he is not ruling it out. He's supposed to do a listening tour of some states in the coming months, but that hasn't also been announced yet. And he is running out of time. But if Joe Manchin does get in with RFK Jr., Cornel West, it could be a little bit interesting.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, great conversation, you guys. Thank you. When we come back, as we mark 60 years after the assassination of John F. Kennedy, a look back at the youngest president ever elected to office.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. Sixty years ago this week, President John F. Kennedy was assassinated in Dallas. It was a defining moment for a generation. President Biden commemorated the anniversary on Wednesday, saying in a statement, quote, “In life and in death, President Kennedy changed the way we saw ourselves, a country full of youthful hopes and ambition.” When he was a candidate for president in 1960, Kennedy joined this broadcast. He was only 43 years old.
[START TAPE]
JOHN STEELE:
Senator, I ask this respectfully: How are you qualified to be president?
SEN. JOHN F. KENNEDY
I have served in the Congress for 14 years, and I think they were very difficult and changing years. I think that I am a figure of the post war where entirely new problems are coming on the scene, which present entirely new challenges to American political leaders. Having come into politics during this period, having, I think, some strong convictions as to what the United States must do to maintain its position as the leader of the free world, and its own survival. I think I can meet the responsibilities of the presidency.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
When we come back, Selma Blair who was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis is using her voice for the rights of all those living with disabilities.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. For more than 75 years, Meet the Press has had a history of shining a light on people who impact our politics from outside of Washington, from Jackie Robinson to Robert Frost to Jane Fonda and John Glenn. Actor Selma Blair is known for her deadpan humor with quirky, intelligent performances in iconic films like "Cruel Intentions," "Heathers" and "Legally Blonde":
[START TAPE]
CECILE CALDWELL:
What are the boys like?
BUNNY CALDWELL:
Cecile, is that all you can think of? Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha.
JADE DUKE:
Doesn’t look like anyone’s coming to your little party to me, Heather.
PROFESSOR:
Vivian Kensington, do you think it’s acceptable that Ms. Woods is not prepared?
VIVIAN KENSINGTON:
No. I don’t
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Five years ago at age 46, Blair was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, after battling the autoimmune disease from the age of seven. In 2019, she walked onto the red carpet with a cane for the first time at an Oscars afterparty, making her disability visible in a powerful way. Now, Blair has become an advocate for Americans living with disabilities, joining President Biden at the White House in October to recognize the 33rd anniversary of the Americans with Disabilities Act and to advocate for new legislation for disability rights and pay equity.
[START TAPE]
SELMA BLAIR:
I'm here before you today as a proud disabled woman with my cane and my service dog Scout by my side. Our laws and policies must reflect that our disabled lives are not of lesser value.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Selma Blair, welcome to Meet the Press.
SELMA BLAIR:
Thank you –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Thank you for being here.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You were diagnosed five years ago with multiple sclerosis. You're in remission now. How are you doing, Selma?
SELMA BLAIR:
I am in remission, so that is a very safe place to be, you know, as far as diagnoses go. But I do have – even though there's no evidence of current disease activity, I do still have the leftovers. It does – I did have it for many years and didn't know, and it does leave some, you know, burn areas, some scar tissue and all that. And mine is in the basal ganglia, movement and stuff. So some of my stuff looks a little different than other people with MS. There's a gazillion types of MS, wherever your damage is. But I'm doing really well.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You have your beautiful dog, Scout, here with you. Are you in any pain?
SELMA BLAIR:
You know –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Talk about the strength you find every day.
SELMA BLAIR:
I am. I'm in pain every day. Every day. I have dystonia also that really doesn't always flare up for entire conversations, but it’s almost like someone with a stutter maybe, or a type of Tourette's. So things go in and out. People don't always understand that. So there can be a lot of discrimination and confusion I think with people thinking I'm putting something on, and then I have a dog, and I just want a dog with me. So there's a lot of tricky stuff. But the real fact is I really am in pain all the time. There is a stiffness that does – does not leave me.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I want to talk to you about your journey to diagnosis. You have written about it. You have done a documentary about it. You say that you had symptoms starting at seven years old?
SELMA BLAIR:
I mean, there is a prodromal period, so I'm not certain that it actually was, like, a full on. But there is – my neurologist was explaining, there can be years of prodromal, you know, accruing and great fatigue and problems. But I did. I had the thing where you bend down, I get electricity. I had very clear signs at that time. I had optical neuritis as a child, which really is only from brain trauma or MS. And yet, they didn't recognize it in me, even though I was seeking doctors my entire childhood.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You have said of your experience, and this really was incredibly powerful, you've said, "If you're a boy with those symptoms, you get an MRI. If you're a girl, you're called crazy." And a number of studies support exactly what you are saying. Why do you think that this continues to be a problem in medicine?
SELMA BLAIR:
They were all, you know, older male doctors who really probably did not know the intricacies of a girl. And that, you know, everything does not need to be blamed on menstruation or something. Yes, that comes with its own bag of things to know about. And also, medical students, I mean, they don't have MS and MS is different for everyone. And they can be disguised as emotional things. I have prefrontal damage that would cause, you know, hysterical crying and laughing. And I just thought, "Wow, I'm just that wild one that wakes up in the middle of the night, like, waking myself up laughing hysterically, or sobbing, or in front of people just very moody maybe." And – and I believed all these things. And I was put on really strong antidepressants from a really young age. And I drank. I drank because I felt so other. I just went in the basement and I drank from a really young.
KRISTEN WELKER:
What age?
SELMA BLAIR:
From seven.
KRISTEN WELKER:
When you got that diagnosis after all of those years of suffering, you are describing real suffering, and you were finally diagnosed at age 46, what was that moment like for you, Selma?
SELMA BLAIR:
I was relieved I finally had something that could be understood, and then treated. It took me until, like, another year to realize a lot of my childhood symptoms were MS. I thought, "Oh, all this poor feeling I had and this lethargy and this attitude, all of this has led to now I've given myself MS." You know, everything. But it was the gratitude of people helping me. I was such a loner in my life. I was already sober by this point though. I had already really made an effort to get myself on track. I mean, more than an effort. It was a major change. And I am so grateful that I had been sober for years so I could properly, you know, process and – and – and feel comfortable realizing what people were doing for me, and realizing this is not the norm.
KRISTEN WELKER:
When you think about those years that you went undiagnosed, that doctors were frankly not listening to you, do you feel anger?
SELMA BLAIR:
Sometimes, but I don't want to feel anger because I don't want to feel blame. I don’t want to because – you know, because maybe I wasn't ready to be diagnosed then. You know, maybe I wouldn't have been able to quit drinking. I don't know. The things that were such clear signs I went in with, the part that I get most sad because it made me lose, you know, my entire – my entire years until diagnosis because – because I hated myself for making up that I wasn't feeling well. I just believed that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, you were recently at the White House, and lending your powerful voice to mark the 50th anniversary of the Americans with Disabilities Act. What was it like for you to be there at the White House? Why was that important for you to be there?
SELMA BLAIR:
For me, it was such a mark of how far I'd come. And I meant that as something that could be aspirational to people. Not that you have to be cured, not that, like, oh, getting some great podium is the answer for something. But that there was such, like, a vibrance in me. And that it was, like, I had the energy to get on this plane, to get to this incredible experience. And – and, of course, you know, having that walk from the White House to the South Lawn was really healing for me in so many ways. Having, you know, the most powerful man in the world, like, on your arm – you know, I'm on his arm. And I just thought, "Wow. Things have changed. And a lot of this is the help from the disability community.” Judy Heumann, who is the greatest organizer and rally – rallier of her friends with disabilities, she was the grand dam. You know, she created the American Disabilities Act. They did the sit-in when the government wouldn't see it. Disabled people getting out of their wheelchairs and lying on the ground to say, "Pay attention" because growing up, we did not have exposure to people with disabilities. It was like they didn't exist. And I had that mindset. Not on purpose, I just had very little awareness.
KRISTEN WELKER:
What is your message to lawmakers, to the president? What do you want to see next for the disabled community?
SELMA BLAIR:
Equity, accessibility. I mean, yes, of course, I'm so grateful that anything was put into place. But again, sub-minimum wage for people with disabilities. You can work all day and get paid $0.50 an hour. No. Why is that okay? Really, they just use it kind of as like slave labor, you know, to get disabled people out of the house, to have something to just. It's really out of touch and wrong. I want – I want equity. I want justice. I want this community and all other marginalized ones too, of course, but the – the disability community is – is creative and strong and loyal and fun. And, I mean, really because they're people that have had to figure out situations. And I – I – I – really don't do lip service. You really need to be with people with disabilities. And, you know, "Nothing about us without us" is what I've heard, you know, said from the start when I joined up. And it's like, "Oh, right. Right, of course." Of course, we need a fit model that is a wheelchair user. Of course, you need a real wheelchair user to go down that ramp to check that angle. You know there are things that you – you're trying to do the right thing, but you're not really at the crux of starting this conversation.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And our thanks to Selma Blair for her bravery in speaking out. You can watch my full interview with Selma Blair at MeetThePress.com. That is all for today. Thank you so much for watching. We will be back next week because if it’s Sunday, it’s Meet the Press.