ANDREA MITCHELL:
This Sunday: a shot in the arm.
DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY:
We now have a booster plan for all three of our Covid-19 vaccines.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
The CDC approves Moderna and Johnson & Johnson booster shots for millions.
DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY:
The CDC now will allow new recommendations to mix and match.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
The government also preparing to vaccinate younger children later this fall, but many parents are hesitant.
VACCINE PROTESTOR:
We're not anti-vax. That’s not what we’re saying. We’re saying this is a new science, quote/unquote, and it needs to be proven.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
My guest this morning, the CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky. Plus, Democrats say they're getting close to agreement on that big social spending bill.
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
We're down to four or five issues. I think we can get there.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
But they worry about the political cost of this very public debate.
SEN. JEFF MERKLEY:
It's hurting Biden. It's hurting the Democrats.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
I'll talk to Senator Angus King, Independent of Maine, Republican Senator Roy Blunt of Missouri, and Chuck Todd talks to California Governor Gavin Newsom.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
I mean, this political death march of who's up, who's down, Manchin this, Sinema, I can't take it anymore.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Also, the battle over voting rights. Republicans again block debate on new voting rights legislation.
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL:
The same rotten core is all still there.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
And President Biden agrees the filibuster may have to go because of Republican intransigence.
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
It's unfair, it's unconscionable,and it's un-American.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Joining me for insight and analysis are: María Teresa Kumar, President of Voto Latino, Republican strategist Brendan Buck, Ayesha Rascoe, White House correspondent for NPR, and Politico White House correspondent and Playbook co-author Eugene Daniels. Welcome to Sunday. It's Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history. This is Meet the Press with Chuck Todd.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Good Sunday morning. Chuck Todd is off today, I'm Andrea Mitchell. A lot happened in Washington this week. Whether a lot got accomplished that’s another matter. For the third time, Democrats put up voting rights legislation, and for the third time it went nowhere because of a Republican filibuster.
[BEGIN TAPE]
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
Today, the right to vote and the rule of law are under unrelenting assault from Republican governors, attorneys general, secretaries of state, state legislators. And they're following my predecessor, the last president, into a deep, deep black hole and abyss.
[END TAPE]
ANDREA MITCHELL:
There were many hopeful reports of progress on President Biden's social spending plans, and just as many pessimistic reports of stalemate. And there was even one report that a principal Democratic hold-out, Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia, is thinking of leaving the party. By week's end, Democrats were closer to a deal, but not close enough, as Republicans sat back and enjoyed the very public sausage making. And House Democrats, joined by just nine Republicans, voted to recommend Trump ally, Steve Bannon, be prosecuted for criminal contempt of Congress. At issue: his refusal to obey a subpoena regarding January 6th. We'll get to all of those stories in a moment, but we're going to begin with Covid. On Friday, the CDC approved Moderna and Johnson booster shots, meaning that Americans may choose from all three vaccines, including Pfizer.
[BEGIN TAPE]
DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY:
The vast majority of people will probably select the one that they, that they originally received and did really well with. But there may be some people who would prefer a different vaccine, or if you go to a pharmacy and they don’t have the vaccine that you originally got. It really is fine to get a different vaccine.
[END TAPE]
ANDREA MITCHELL:
And joining me now is CDC director Dr. Rochelle Walensky. Dr. Walensky, welcome back to Meet the Press.
DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY:
Thank you. Good morning, Andrea.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Good morning to you. And it's good to see you. Let's talk about the boosters. So the approval for booster shots this week makes a big difference, but there's a lot of confusion. First of all, for Johnson & Johnson recipients, why is it so important that they, they consider boosters? And do you recommend the mRNA boosters, getting Moderna or Pfizer for them?
DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY:
Right. This has been a really important next step in our booster campaign across America because we now have a booster plan for all three of our vaccines. For Moderna and Pfizer, if you're more than six months out, you may be eligible for a booster. And what we said for J&J is that if you're two months out of your last shot, you are eligible for a booster. And then finally, this plan to have recommendations towards mix and matching. The FDA and the CDC saw a lot of data over the last week. We saw data from the NIH on mix and match, that antibody levels for the mRNA vaccines boosting the J&J were really, really high. And we also saw clinical data from J&J that said if you're boosted with J&J, you actually do quite well as well, which is why we've really left it open and said any one of these vaccines can really be used to boost any one of the others.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Now, I've spoken to a couple of doctors, some of our experts, who say that confusion is actually good for the body, that if you had Moderna, two shots of Moderna, well, try the Pfizer booster and vice versa. Is it good to give them, for people to get something that does have a different kind of antibody for that Covid spike?
DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY:
You know, that's an important question. And it's not necessarily one we have definitive science on right now. We will absolutely be studying that. But what we do know is that it looks very effective. It looks effective in the clinical studies. It looks effective in the antibody studies. And it looks very safe as well. Is there an absolute preference for one or another if you got an mRNA vaccine versus a Johnson & Johnson vaccine? We really do see great clinical benefit for both.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Now, the other problem that begins to develop is that during the last couple of weeks, we're seeing more people getting boosters than getting their first shots. So is all the focus on boosters going to take away from the bigger problem, which is to get more people vaccinated, at least with, with their first doses?
DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY:
Andrea, this is such an important point. We have 64 million Americans who have still not yet rolled up their sleeves for an initial booster shot. And we are vaccinating them at about 250,000 a day. We are continuing active outreach, active communication, active discussions with trusted messengers to really work to scale that up. In the meantime, in parallel and without losing any of that effort in getting people vaccinated for the first time, we are rolling out this booster plan and people are coming. They are interested in getting their boosters.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Let's talk about kids, five to 11. The initial data, certainly, reporting that the FDA in fact believes that there is really a positive effect and very low risk. You're going to have the advisory, the FDA advisory on Tuesday. Just when do you think, all things being equal and no big surprises, that these children, these little children could get vaccinated?
DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY:
Right. Great. So between the ages of five to 11, the FDA will be reviewing those data this week. They will have a lot of science to review. And over the coming week, we are hopeful to hear from them by the beginning of the following week. And that's when the CDC will have their meeting. And I will be ready to take action if all of that goes smoothly as soon as possible. In the meantime, the administration is working on the operations and the logistics. So as soon as we have both the FDA authorization and the CDC recommendations, there will be vaccine out there so children can start rolling up their sleeves.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Now, according to the latest data from Kaiser, you have fully one-fourth of the American parents saying that under no circumstances would they let their kids get vaccinated. A third would. A third want to wait and see. But one in four do not want to have vaccinations, even though for decades children have been vaccinated. So how do you reach those? And if you don't reach those people, that's a big number. Can you get the herd immunity in schools that you really need?
DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY:
Right. This is critically important. And we know we have a lot of work to do. And in fact, those survey data look very much consistent with where we were with adults in last December when we rolled out vaccines for adults. So we have done a huge amount of hard work over the last ten months: education, communication, providing information, getting vaccines to really convenient places, trusted messengers, making sure those vaccines are in pediatricians' offices and children's hospitals where there -- and pharmacies where parents trust vaccines being given. And so we're doing absolutely all of that hard work now. And we have that hard work to come for both our children as well as our parents and for the 64 million people who have yet to roll up the sleeves themselves.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
What is your advice to parents and to schools regarding lifting mask mandates in schools once children are vaccinated?
DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY:
You know, our case numbers are coming down, and that is so encouraging. We still have 75,000 new cases a day of Covid, and we are still having death rates of about 1,200 to 1,500 deaths per day. As we roll out these vaccines for our children, and we are hopeful that we will be able to, it's also critically important that our kids are able to stay in school. We saw just a couple of weeks ago new science that demonstrated that schools that masked had three and a half times less likelihood of having outbreaks than schools that didn't. And so in my mind, the most important thing right now as we work to get our cases down, as we work to get our children vaccinated, is that we continue the masking to keep our kids in school.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Now, I want to play something, the last time you were on Meet the Press, last May. This is what you had to say about lifting mask mandates.
[BEGIN TAPE]
DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY:
We are asking people to be honest with themselves. If they are vaccinated and they are not wearing a mask, they are safe.
[END TAPE]
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Did you move too soon on that? Was that a mistake?
DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY:
You know, that was at a time of the Alpha variant when vaccinated people if they were a breakthrough infection could not transmit the Alpha variant to someone else. This is really an opportunity to understand that we have to be humble with the science and to move with the science. As we have learned with this Delta variant, it's a different variant, it's a more transmissible variant, and it behaves differently in the context of breakthrough infection. So at the time, that's what the science told us we could do. We are in a very different moment with a very different variant.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
How worried are you about this Delta Plus that's surging in the U.K., about it coming here? We don't have enough testing to really know how much is out there.
DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY:
We absolutely are following the genomic sequencing of this very carefully. This is -- I think you're referring to the AY4.2 sublineage. It is a variant of the Delta variant. It has several mutations on the spike protein that we have not yet seen implicated in increased transmissibility or in decreased ability of our vaccines or our therapeutics to work. We're watching it very carefully. We have had a handful of cases here in the United States, but it has not taken off as it has in the U.K.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Could there come a point where we're going to have to again stop the flights coming in from Europe or the U.K. because of this?
DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY:
We're not anticipating that now. We are absolutely following the science very, very carefully, but we're not anticipating or looking into that right now.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Dr. Rochelle Walensky, thank you so much for being with us on Meet the Press.
DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY:
Thanks for having me, Andrea.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
And turning now to two big issues in Washington. On President Biden's social spending plan, Democrats are now reportedly nearing agreement on a billionaire's tax, rather than raising rates on people making north of $400,000 a year because of opposition by Senator Kyrsten Sinema. And because Republicans denied any debate at all on voting rights, the president says he may now be willing to overhaul the filibuster. One senator who is moving in the same direction on that score is Independent Senator Angus King of Maine. And Senator King is here with us. Welcome back to Meet the Press, Senator King.
SEN. ANGUS KING:
Great to be with you, Andrea. Good morning.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Good morning to you. I want to talk to you first about the filibuster. You were one of the resisters to going against the filibuster. But this week when, for a third time, Republicans blocked even any debate on voting rights, you began to change and say that you might consider alterations to the filibuster. What are you willing to consider: getting rid of it altogether or having a talking filibuster, which is what they used to do? Where are you now?
SEN. ANGUS KING:
Well, I think we -- I'm not really ready to say, "Let's get rid of it altogether" because I think there are circumstances where it makes sense. So I'd prefer some alternative to what the present rule is. I'd like to restore the Senate to what it was, where we actually had debates and people had to hold the floor. And so I think some kind of talking filibuster, perhaps a rule that instead of having to have 60 votes to pass something, you'd have to have 41 votes to stop it. So that way, the minority would at least have to show up. So we've got to do something about this, at least when it comes to something as crucial as democracy itself, as voting rights.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Well, do you think you'll get 50 votes though to change that rule? Would Senators Manchin and Sinema, for instance, go along with it?
SEN. ANGUS KING:
Well, you know, I've talked to both of them. And I don’t -- I can't say for sure. I don't want to read minds here. I know that both of them have resisted it, as have I because once you monkey with the rule, then it's going to work both ways. It's going to come back and it could come back to bite those who want to move things forward right now. Today's obnoxious obstruction tomorrow could be a precious shield. But when it comes to democracy, I think Joe and Kyrsten will listen. Joe Manchin's a former secretary of state. He believes in people's right to vote. He helped negotiate the bill that we brought to the floor the other day that they wouldn't even let us get to a debate on. I mean, it was a, it was a filibuster of a motion to just bring the bill to the floor. And I think Joe might be ready to listen to, not an abolition of the filibuster, but some modification to make it -- to allow us to move forward, to give the minority all the rights in the world to speak, to debate, to make their points. But at some point, we've got to be able to make decisions. The trick, Andrea, is respecting minority rights while at the same time not empowering the minority with an effective veto. That's the needle that we're trying to thread here.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Now, talking about trying to thread the needle, let's talk about the so-called reconciliation, the social spending bills. And so much focus has been on the trillions of dollars that are being spent and not on what is -- and what is being cut, and not on what is still in there. But how do you feel right now, for instance, about the billionaire's tax that apparently is one of the things that's being considered to get around Senator Sinema's opposition to raising rates on the wealthy?
SEN. ANGUS KING:
Well, you know, number one, I think you're right, I think one of the mistakes in this has been all the attention has been on what the number is: $3.5 billion, $2.8, $2.2, whatever it is, rather than what's in the bill. Why are we doing this? And, you know, I think back, Andrea, to the '50s. The two most important federal policies of the '50s that propelled us into the prosperity of the '50s, '60s, '70s, and '80s, there were two: one was the interstate highway system, and the other was the GI Bill. I talked to a guy just the other day, 96 years old, enlisted in the Navy during World War II. The GI Bill changed his life. He didn't even finish high school when he enlisted. He came back, finished high school, went to college. And so really, what we're talking about is a GI Bill for the 21st century.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Let me ask you about Senator Joe Manchin and climate because right now, the climate provisions are really out of the bill. The president's going to try to do things by executive order, we're told. But that can always be overturned, challenged in the courts. So you've lost the climate provisions. Senator Manchin is talking about even at one point this week becoming an independent like you. How do you feel about Senator Manchin becoming an independent, still voting with Democrats, and losing so much of climate, which is so important to Mainers?
SEN. ANGUS KING:
Well, first, let me take the independent part. Of course, I'd welcome an expansion of my caucus by a third. But on the other hand, I think Joe had a rather colorful response to that. It started with the word "bull." So I don't really think that's going to happen. Listen, Joe is the chairman of the Energy and Natural Resources Committee. I'm on that committee. We've done a lot under his leadership on climate this year, on things like energy efficiency, on energy storage, which by the way, I think is the real key to a clean energy future. And he's facilitated that. He's worked through it. He didn't like the provisions that were in the president's proposal. But I don't think that necessarily means that he's, you know, death on climate legislation. I think there are other ways to approach this problem to get to the same result. Clearly, we've got to get there. It's one of my major priorities in Congress. I used to carry a card around that shows the gross expansion of CO2 in our atmosphere and what it's doing to the planet. So I'm all in on this subject. But I think there are still going to be paths that we can find to solve the problem, or at least to begin -- I shouldn't have said "solve the problem." -- to begin to solve the problem, because it really is a crisis facing this country and the world. The other piece, Andrea, that we've got to remember is we can't do it alone. And I think the most unfortunate part about losing the provisions of the reconciliation bill is that it weakens Joe Biden's hands in Glasgow, the climate meeting that's coming up, because if we're going to get the rest of the world to take serious steps to remedy this problem, we've got to do it ourselves. So I'm disappointed that we're not going to be able to move forward with those provisions, but I think there are going to be other alternatives. And I think Joe Manchin will be there.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
And, in fact, he's going to be in Wilmington today negotiating with the president one-on-one. So we'll wait to see what comes out of that. So great to see you, Senator Angus King. Thank you very much for joining us today.
SEN. ANGUS KING:
Thank you, Andrea. Great to be with you.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
And joining me now, Republican Senator Roy Blunt of Missouri, chair of the Republican Policy Committee. Senator Blunt, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEN. ROY BLUNT:
Great to be with you.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Well, good to have you here. I want to ask you about some statements that the former president Donald Trump made just this week. On Thursday he said, "The insurrection took place on November 3rd, Election Day. January 6th was a protest." Was Election Day an insurrection?
SEN. ROY BLUNT:
You know, I think the election was what it was. There's a process you go through that determines whether or not the early reports were the right reports. And we went through that process. And I'm of the view that the best thing that President Trump could do to help us win majorities in 2022 is talk about the future. And he can be an important part of that, this '22 effort. But I think, better off to talk about the future than to focus on the past in every election. Every election should be about the future, and I think that's what this next one's going to be about.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
He still, this week, was making these false election claims. On Thursday, "Arizona should decertify their fake election results immediately." Also Thursday, "They," the Biden administration, "are only really good at two things: rigging elections and misinformation." So he's still talking about the past. And a lot of Republicans, a lot of Republican leaders in the House, other members of the Senate are standing with him on this. Doesn't the party have to disavow the challenge to the election in order to, you know, go forward?
SEN. ROY BLUNT:
You know, I think President Biden and the Democrats are giving us plenty of things to talk about. We don't need to keep focusing on the past --
ANDREA MITCHELL:
But Republicans are. Republicans keep talking about that --
SEN. ROY BLUNT:
Well, I'm not. And I don't think --
ANDREA MITCHELL:
-- and incorrectly.
SEN. ROY BLUNT:
I don't think many Republicans in the Senate are. I think we're talking about bad tax policies, bad environmental policies, bad national takeover of the election process. There are plenty of things for us to talk about, and I think we're talking about them. I'm there every day, and I hear Republicans concerned, as they should be, about this -- the process that the Democrats are going through right now --
ANDREA MITCHELL:
But they're also denying the reality of January 6th. Republicans refusing the commission, not joining the House Select Committee. Steve Bannon, only nine Republican House votes to punish him for violating a House subpoena.
SEN. ROY BLUNT:
Well, you know, I think a lot of this discussion is obviously driven by the media, just like this is here today. We could be talking about Senate rules. We could be talking about tax policy.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Well, if Republicans were --
SEN. ROY BLUNT:
We could be talking about --
ANDREA MITCHELL:
-- accepting the reality --
SEN. ROY BLUNT:
-- these new entitlement policies.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
It's not the media that's, you know, going against the reality of what happened on January 6th. It was the worst attack on our government, on our democracy since the Civil War.
SEN. ROY BLUNT:
Oh, I agree with that. In fact, on January the 20th, I was at the podium at the Capitol chairing the inauguration. And that peaceful transition of power that we saw that day is one of the most important things we do. And I was able to chair the inauguration four years earlier. And four years later, it was the same important message we sent to the world. And I think we effectively did that.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Well, to that point, if the former president keeps denying the reality of the election and of Joe Biden being the president, should that disqualify him from being a candidate, as he suggests he wants to be, in 2024?
SEN. ROY BLUNT:
Well, you know, there are constitutional provisions about being a candidate. And having opinions that other people may not agree with is not one of those provisions. He can be a candidate if he wants to be. But, again, I think what President Trump could do that would be most helpful right now would be focus on the policies that aren't working. You know, his policies at the border were working. His regulatory policies were --
ANDREA MITCHELL:
But if he --
SEN. ROY BLUNT:
-- were working. His tax policies were working. But we see that those policies for Democrats with these narrow majorities they have aren't working. I hope that's where he focuses. But, you know, I don't manage his time --
ANDREA MITCHELL:
I know. But if he doesn't --
SEN. ROY BLUNT:
-- or his comments.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
-- concede the election, would you support him in 2024?
SEN. ROY BLUNT:
Well, the election for 2020 is over. I'm focused on 2022, and it's a long time between now and 2024.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
He has basically excommunicated Liz Cheney from the party, as has Kevin McCarthy, primarying her and all the rest just for trying to investigate what really happened, what was the conspiracy behind January 6th. Do you think there's a place in the Republican Party for Liz Cheney?
SEN. ROY BLUNT:
You know, I think Wyoming voters are going to decide if there's a place for her in the House or not. But it's a broad party with lots of things we ought to be focusing on. I think, again, what defines the future of the Republican Party is how we react to the debate that's going on right now. Democrats are having an incredibly hard time getting where they'd like to be. You know, they've decided that they've got a mandate when there's clearly no mandate. The Senate couldn't possibly be closer. The House majority is the closest Democrats have had in 170 years.
And frankly, the only thing that Joe Biden and Donald Trump agreed about in 2020 was they both wanted the election to be all about Donald Trump. There is no mandate. Pretending you do is going to have real consequences --
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Well.
SEN. ROY BLUNT:
-- in both '22 and '24.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Let me ask you about voting rights because you actually have talked to Joe Manchin about --
SEN. ROY BLUNT:
I have.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
-- some of the ballot protection issues, yet the Joe Manchin compromise was trying to get to the floor. Democrats were blocked by a filibuster of Republicans, not even letting it get to the floor. How do you feel about voting rights? You supported reenacting the Voting Rights Bill when you were a House member --
SEN. ROY BLUNT:
Oh, I did. And --
ANDREA MITCHELL:
-- in 2006.
SEN. ROY BLUNT:
-- I would again extend the House, the Voting Rights Bill. The Voting Rights Bill hasn't been repealed. The 14th and 15th Amendment haven't been repealed.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Yes, but the Supreme Court decision in 2013 basically gutted it.
SEN. ROY BLUNT:
You know, I was both a local election official and the chief election official for our state for a combined total of about 20 years. There are 10,000 election jurisdictions out there in America. The federal government deciding how elections should be run in all 10,000 of those jurisdictions is a bad idea, and I don't think Senator Manchin was surely, fully on board with the supposed compromise. It was a compromise between the left and the far left. You still had matching funding of $6 --
ANDREA MITCHELL:
But --
SEN. ROY BLUNT:
-- for every dollar raised --
ANDREA MITCHELL:
But he blessed it.
SEN. ROY BLUNT:
-- for House members. Well, I like Joe Machin, but I'm not driven by the Joe Manchin standard of whether something's a good deal or not. This is clearly a federal takeover of elections. It was not doing things around the edges of elections to direct the country in a more significant way, and I'm opposed to it. There's no right way to do the wrong thing, and federal government taking over elections is the wrong thing to do. One of the strengths of our system is the diversity of the system itself. And the state and local responsibility to conduct an election that people have confidence in.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
We're going to have to leave it there. Thank you very much Senator Roy Blunt. And when we come back, Democrats are worried that the seemingly endless social spending talks are hurting them politically. That and voting rights when the panel joins us next.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Welcome back, the panel is here. Republican strategist Brendan Buck, Ayesha Rascoe, White House correspondent for NPR, María Teresa Kumar, president of Voto Latino, and Politico White House correspondent and Playbook co-author Eugene Daniels. Welcome all, it's great to see you all. So we've had this endless negotiation, what seems like endless negotiation and party infighting. Ayesha, let's talk about this. How close are they? We know that Joe Manchin and Chuck Schumer are going to Wilmington as we speak.
AYESHA RASCOE:
Well, they are getting closer. As the White House likes to say, there is urgency now. They're feeling the urgency. I will say, though, it seems like with all the -- and look, making the sausage, getting everything together is always not pretty. But it seems like, almost like the White House has been too clever for its own good. They've been so disciplined about not putting forward exactly where they stand and exactly what they want to do because they don't want to mess up the negotiations. But now you don't know where they stand. And they have not defined this bill.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
And María Teresa, let's talk about that. Because have they focused so much on the dollar figures and what's being cut out? They haven't focused on selling what's in it. And have they lost the progressive caucus -- if not their votes, have they lost their base?
MARÍA TERESA KUMAR:
I don't think they've lost their base. But part of it is because no one knows what's in the bill, I think including the administration. And so what we're going to see is whether or not they have to give people a little bit on climate. And the reason I say that is that we haven't heard yet from the squad. And the squad recognizes that their supporters, their most extreme progressive base, that's what they care about. And so, however those chips fall, that's going to be an indicator. But I also believe that the Democrats, the president, they recognize that this is an existential threat. If they don't pass something on the most important comprehensive package for our generation for the 21st century, not only is it going to question whether or not people come out and vote for them again, but also the people that get left behind are the American people. That's this ambitious plan, and that's what they need to communicate to your point.
BRENDAN BUCK:
And I think desperation is a real motivator. And I think that's what you're seeing right now. They've been drifting for a long time. And I think one of the -- to the point you're making, one of the most interesting things that happened last week, obviously the Biden administration getting engaged, but also progressives signaling that they're going to be much more pragmatic about what happens. They went down to the White House and basically told, "Here's what's out. This bill's getting cut in half." And they came out of there, and instead of saying, "We're a no," they were actually leaning into it. So I think that's the most encouraging thing for them. But there are still so many issues that are unresolved: taxes, Medicare, prescription drugs, the state and local tax. All of these things are up in the air. They could pull it together quickly if they need to, but there's still so many unanswered questions that how can you sell it? And eventually, they have to get to that point.
EUGENE DANIELS:
And Brendan, sorry, to Brendan's point on messaging, like they've already started to message -- you know, it was $3.5, this was so important, it had to have everything in there. But now they're saying, "This is still, no matter what, the most money we've ever spent on any of these issues," right? Now so you've seen that messaging change in the White House all the way down to the progressives.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
But is it too late? And the other thing is, when you talk about the base, Eugene, let's see what we heard at the town hall meeting. This is a young man, Thaddeus Price, asking the really tough question of the president.
[BEGIN TAPE]
THADDEUS PRICE:
You received overwhelming support from the Black community, and rightfully so, rightfully so. But now, many of us are disheartened as we watch a Congress fail to support police reform. We watch our voting rights vanish before our very eyes.
[END TAPE]
ANDREA MITCHELL:
So, you know, he doesn't really have an answer to that. Voting rights and police reform -- neither are getting done.
EUGENE DANIELS:
No, out of those things that Black people talked about so much during the election, President Biden said he'd have their back. And that is why they're saying, "So where are you? We're nine, ten months into your administration." And now you're hearing, and we've been hearing for months, activists and people who get people out to vote saying, "You have to give us something that go back to Black people and say, 'You did this for them.'" And that is what they're hoping to see. They haven't seen it. And there's this immense frustration that I think the White House has not really paid as much attention to as Black voters want them to.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
And then the president certainly indicated, Brendan, on the filibuster that he's now willing to concede, and especially a carve-out for voting rights. What's the pitfall there if they lose the midterms and then it comes back to bite them? That's happened before with Mitch McConnell.
BRENDAN BUCK:
It's not only possible, but it's very likely that Republicans are in control of Congress next year. And I understand that they're frustrated. But they keep sort of banging their head against the wall on this. Joe Manchin has said time and time again he's not going to do it. And it's not just Joe Manchin. It's Jon Tester, it's Kyrsten Sinema. There's a lot of problems they have to carve out the filibuster. And the reality is, this could turn around on them very quickly.
MARÍA TERESA KUMAR:
And I do think that they have a very limited time to pass the Freedom to Vote Act. What we're seeing coming out of Texas, out of Georgia, it was what you were asking Senator Blunt. The fact that they gutted the Voting Rights Act, the congressional redistricting that just came out of Texas that basically gave communities of color zero Democratic seats, basically, any districts--
ANDREA MITCHELL:
In what had been Black districts.
MARÍA TERESA KUMAR:
Well, Black and Latino districts.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
And Latino districts.
MARÍA TERESA KUMAR:
And 95% of the growth in Texas was because of people of color. And so now that the local states no longer have pre-clearance for the Department of Justice, they're doing their own shenanigans and writing up all their rights. When people say, "Well, why don't we pass the Freedom to Vote Act?" That is little D democracy. And that is what they need to basically suspend the filibuster, because I deeply believe that once people can vote their values, and vote, and have access to the voting booth, we will have police reform. We will have climate change.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
But Ayesha, it's also nullification. It's not just access to voting. It's being able to, in all of these states, going legislature to legislature, being able to nullify the votes with secretaries of state being appointed.
AYESHA RASCOE:
And that is why you have all of these activists who are at the White House, who are protesting and saying they want change. It has been interesting because the White House has basically been saying, "Go to Congress. We're doing what we can do." And not really putting as much of -- they say this is a make-or-break issue -- but that is not the way the White House has been acting.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
We're going to have to leave it there. We'll be back later. When we come back now, Chuck Todd talks to California Governor Gavin Newsom about Democrats in Congress, his recall election, and whether he plans to approve parole for Sirhan Sirhan. Stay with us.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Welcome back. This past week, Chuck Todd sat down with California Governor Gavin Newsom in Los Angeles. Among the subjects Chuck and the governor touched on were the failed recall election out there and a very difficult decision that lies ahead: whether to approve parole for Robert Kennedy's killer, Sirhan Sirhan. Chuck and Newsom also talked about the current deadlock in Washington and what advice the governor might give President Biden.
[BEGIN TAPE]
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
I have reverence and respect for the president. I'm not here to offer advice unless it's sought. I will observe that -- as just a taxpayer -- that it's Covid, stupid. Look at the poll numbers. And you think Covid's not --
CHUCK TODD:
You think focusing on these other issues is a bit. I don't want to say -- they're not unimportant.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
They're all important.
CHUCK TODD:
Right.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
But the, I mean, this political death march of who's up, who's down, Manchin this, Sinema. I can't take it anymore. No one can take it anymore. And just, enough. Like, stop. Just get something done. And it looks like they're finally going to get something done. And watch, miraculously numbers will start going up. They actually deliver, and you can go out and say what you did, and even -- no one even remembers what was in the original $1 trillion package, and all the good infrastructure investment. Now they get to talk about that again, not just this $3.5 trillion reconciliation that's over ten years. People are going, "No, it's ten years." Don't even know what $1 trillion is. Don't know what reconciliation is. They just know no one's getting a damn thing done, and it's driving them crazy. And, of course, they're going to blame whoever is in the executive branch. And so I think all that changes as long as the focus reverts immediately back to the reason why he was elected in the first place. And that was to get Covid behind us. Every question you've asked me has that connected tissue.
CHUCK TODD:
Let's talk about your political situation. In some ways you're stronger politically in this state. They went at you, you didn't just win, you won in some ways by a bigger margin than you did the first time. This clearly changed you a little bit. How did it change you? There's an interesting, I can't put my finger on it, but you describe it.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
For me, it was rather existential. It's a question of whether or not, you know, and it's a bit, you know, it's humbling beyond words. I mean, beyond words.
CHUCK TODD:
You took it pretty personally at first, didn't you?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
It's -- I work hard. I really care. I care about Trump supporters. I worked with President Trump. I went out of my way. I love this country. I love this state. I love my neighborhood. I can't stand that my neighbor, you know, if he could, he'd put a Confederate flag up. But he's put pretty much every other flag up. And he didn't even want to talk to my daughter when she brought him an egg and wanted to give him an egg, he said, "Get off my door." I was like, man, he loves his grandkids. I see his grandkids there all the time. We share a neighborhood. You know, he cares about the same things I care about, but maybe our politics are a little different. And we've just seen politics so damn weaponized. So I really worry about this. Because I worry about -- and I know we talk about worry about our kids. I do. I worry about their kids not when they grow up, I worry about them in school now. They're not even getting along with their damn friends. And so I am concerned about all that. So it changed me in this respect. There's just a sense of determination, intentionality. Time is completely refocused. I'm more energetic and I'm more willing to take risks. And it's not as if I've had a career where I have not leaned in. Quite the contrary. I don't want to be reckless, but I am willing to take risks, and I'm willing to mark a moment of accountability and responsibility. And I'll close on that. It's about time these damn pundits on TV and these politicians start taking responsibility and stop acting like victims. I don't know what the hell's happened in this country. Stop acting like a victim. You have agency. Let's take responsibility.
CHUCK TODD:
The Sirhan Sirhan decision. Is this a -- is this a decision --
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
That's a tough one.
CHUCK TODD:
You know, what makes it tough --
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
I mean, it's interesting. It's interesting you --
CHUCK TODD:
What makes it tough?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
It's interesting you asked the question. I don't laugh to be dismissive, I laugh because that's a hard one for me. Bobby Kennedy --
CHUCK TODD:
It's all on you, right?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Bobby Kennedy is my political hero. I mean, you look at my house, it looks like a shrine to the Kennedy family,and Bobby in particular. There's a picture --
CHUCK TODD:
And you wonder why some of us ask you if you're interested in running for president someday --
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Well, I mean, I just, but I attach to the evocative idealism of the '60s. I mean, there's something about that. Service, contribution, opportunity -- I mean, there was something beautiful there that we need to attach ourselves to again. But that said, this is hard because I believe in redemption. I believe in second chances. At the same time, man, he took away dreams. He took away a lot of hope. And this country, this world is radically changed as a consequence. And I have to factor that in. So I --
CHUCK TODD:
What about the family?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
This is hard. And --
CHUCK TODD:
What about the family? You could say they're, they’re not divided evenly. Does that matter to you?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Profoundly.
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Come on, Bobby's wife.
CHUCK TODD:
Right.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
If I want to preview a point of view, that's going to be profoundly determinative.
CHUCK TODD:
Ethel Kennedy matters a lot --
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
If Ethel Kennedy calls me up and expresses her point of view, there's weight, and there's a different level in weightiness of weight, and that's a call from Ethel Kennedy. And I'm not looking for that call, but I'm very desirous to get a better understanding of where she is as it relates to this decision.
CHUCK TODD:
When do you have to make this decision?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
It hasn't been formally brought to my desk, so it's in a matter of months. But it's coming up. And it's generated a lot of interest. I’ve never -- I'll tell you, It’s really -- you asked this question, I've gotten emails and text messages from folks that are some of the most heartfelt and deep and emotional.
CHUCK TODD:
On both sides of the issue?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
On both sides of this issue.
[END TAPE]
ANDREA MITCHELL:
You can see Chuck's entire interview with Governor Newsom on our website, MeetthePress.com. When we come back, the growing debate over teaching about race in America.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Welcome back. we're going to take a look at a controversial subject: critical race theory, or CRT. It's a graduate-level framework asserting that historical patterns of racism are ingrained in US. institutions, and it has become central to the debate over race in the US. This week on "Meet the Press Reports," Antonia Hylton reports on an African American principal in suburban Dallas suspended over accusations that he was pushing CRT on his students.
[BEGIN TAPE]
ANTONIA HYLTON:
He’s become one of the most prominent casualties in a national war over race, history, and diversity. Psychologically, what's that like?
JAMES WHITFIELD:
Yeah. It's-- you know, I go from-- oh, different extremes. There is the part of me that goes, you know, as any human, "Why-- why me? And why is this--I didn't sign up for this.All I've ever tried to do is serve kids." While this might be happening to me. This is happening all over the country to educators who are tryin' to do best to show up every day and provide that environment for kids"
ANTONIA HYLTON:
Texas is one of 8 states with new, broad laws banning the teaching of critical race theory--- a decades-old graduate-level study. It examines the relationship between the law and racial inequality but conservative organizers and parents have seized on the phrase, turning it into shorthand for lessons or programs they feel are un-American and could make white students feel “guilt.”
PARENT:
Right now, it's very trendy, I know, that. It's very unpopular for me to be against it.
PARENT:
We should be teaching American pride, not to hate our country and to hate each other.
ANTONIA HYLTON:
State Senator Bryan Hughes is the author of Senate Bill 3, the second and most stringent of the anti-CRT laws passed in Texas. When you look at some of what's happening around the state right now, you don't think that any of this has gone off the rails?
BRYAN HUGHES:
Well, I think folks need to focus on what's in the bill and not what's in other states or what they've heard or-- or things like that. And if we were to tell a little white children that they are inherently oppressors, that's not good. If we tell little children of color that they are inherently victims, neither one of those is good.
ANTONIA HYLTON:
Was that the primary motivation for these laws-- to make sure that white kids don't feel guilty?
BRYAN HUGHES:
So the bill is pretty clear. It would be wrong to tell white kids or children of color that they are limited based on the color of their skin or that they are guilty of-- because of what people of their race did in the past.
ANTONIA HYLTON:
What about the teachers who say they're closing their classroom libraries, or Dr. Whitfield, the principal here who's about to lose his job?
BRYAN HUGHES:
I would just ask folks to look at the words of the bill. The words of the bill matter, not the Facebook memes.
ANTONIA HYLTON:
But do you have a message to them? I mean, is there something that that you can clarify at a statewide level?
BRYAN HUGHES:
So what we've said, I wanna make sure this is clear. So what we do not teach in Texas public schools is that one race is inherently superior or inferior.
ANTONIA HYLTON:
I understand that. But I wanna know what you think of the current lives people are living as a result of this entire movement.
BRYAN HUGHES:
Well, I can't speak to the national movement about CRT, what other states are doing. All I can tell you is what's in Senate Bill 3.
[END TAPE]
ANDREA MITCHELL:
You can see Antonia Hylton's full report on Meet The Press Reports, streaming anytime on Peacock. When we come back: why what happens in Virginia's governor’s race may be a key to the 2022 midterms.
[BEGIN TAPE]
PRES. BARACK OBAMA:
But when your supporters hold a rally, where they pledge allegiance to a flag that was flown at the insurrection at the Capitol on January 6th, the biggest threat to our democracy in my lifetime, when you don't separate yourselves from them, that's a problem.
[END TAPE]
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Welcome back, the panel is here. Eugene, Virginia can be a microcosm of issues. This is a smallish crowd for the former president last night, the campaign there as well as in New Jersey, but this is such a tight race. Is this a precursor of the midterms?
EUGENE DANIELS:
No, I think absolutely. Because most importantly, Virginia looks more like the rest of the country, right? It's Blacker and browner, there's more highly educated people there. And so how they end up voting, whether or not they're able to get excited about any moderate Democrat, like Terry McAuliffe, is one thing. And history is not on the Democratic side here. Since 1977, only one person has won the gubernatorial race with their president in office. It’s Terry McAuliffe, actually, in 2013. So it's there, but that history was not good for them.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
And Ayesha, can he repeat? Because you've got a real fatigue with politics right now, nationally. And he needs a big turnout.
AYESHA RASCOE:
He needs a big turnout. And unfortunately, he doesn't have a lot that is animating his base right now. Glenn Youngkin has things, he can talk about critical race theory, he can talk about masks in schools and things. And that is what is really animating people. And people who just feel like they're not happy with what's happening in Washington. And right now, McAuliffe doesn't have that.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Of course, Glenn Youngkin the Republican, a lot of money, self-financing, but is also raising a lot of money and trying to run away from Donald Trump in person, but certainly welcoming his endorsement.
BRENDAN BUCK:
Well, Glenn Youngkin, I think, is taking advantage of the problem the Democrats have nationally. Obviously, there's a lack of motivation. But it's because they're not really getting anything done. Glenn Youngkin, instead, is focusing on issues that are actually important to people right now: inflation, gas prices, these things that are front and center in their everyday life. Whereas national Democrats are trying to pass a bill that nobody can really define, and it gives them an advantage.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
So what about motivating Democrats, María Teresa?
MARÍA TERESA KUMAR:
Well, I think we have to take a step back and say, "What's going to motivate independent Republicans to go and vote for Biden?" Yes, Biden's numbers may be down. But if we remember the toxicity of what Trump represented, he's trying to say that 178 million people that voted -- 158 million people that voted on November 3rd was a farce. What he represents in the toxicity and the tribalism, that's what's at stake right now in Virginia and for our country. It's not the big-D Democrat. It's the little-D democracy. And where are independents and Republicans going to lie their hat and where are they going to vote?
ANDREA MITCHELL:
And I want to talk about Colin Powell, because we lost a statesman, a military man, a diplomat, but also someone who really, really spoke out in favor of education and against the tribalism. I want to show you what he said in 2000 in Philadelphia to the Republicans because it said so much about where the Republicans were going. This was his warning:
[BEGIN TAPE]
COLIN POWELL:
You must understand the cynicism that exists in the Black community. The kind of cynicism that is created when, for example, some in our party miss no opportunity to roundly and loudly condemn affirmative action that helped a few thousand Black kids get an education. But you'll hardly hear a whimper when it's affirmative action for lobbyists who load our federal tax code with preferences for special interest.
[END TAPE]
ANDREA MITCHELL:
I was on the floor there, Brendan. A lot of the delegates booed him when he talked about affirmative action. Has the Republican Party lost the ability to represent majority of Americans?
BRENDAN BUCK:
Yeah, I think obviously the moment where Colin Powell shifted his politics publicly was when he endorsed Barack Obama in 2008. And I think there's a lot of reasons for that. But one of the things he cited in that was John McCain's selection of Sarah Palin as the VP. And I think so much of our party's evolution can point back to that moment. And it's really when the party became a place of ideas and policy to more an ascendance of what ultimately I like to call now the entertainment wing of the party, where it's all about who can be louder and say the more outlandish thing. And it's become a place that's less serious. And I hope that we can get back to a place, I don't think that anything is forever in politics, but I understand why Colin Powell over his life shifted away from the party because it's become much less substantive. And I hope that we can get back to the kind of party that he was a part of for so long.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
And very briefly, Ayesha, in the few seconds we've got left, that does show the polarization.
AYESHA RASCOE:
Yeah, the party left Colin Powell behind. There was not an emphasis on that broad umbrella. And it just left him behind.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Well, great conversation. Thank you all so very much for being here. And that's all for today. Thanks for watching. Chuck Todd will be back next week, because if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press.