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The Ed Show for Wednesday, October 30, 2013

Read the transcript to the Wednesday show

October 30, 2013
Guest: James Clyburn, Terry O`Neil, Joan Walsh, John Larson


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re taking away their choice.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to really congratulate my Republican pals
for being absolutely 1,000 percent consistent.

ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: Some of the Republican theater here is

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You love what`s wrong with the website.

SEN. TED CRUZ, (R) TEXAS Would you like them here or there?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you detest what`s working in the Affordable
Care Act.

CRUZ: I would not like them here of there. I would not like them

SCHULTZ: Joining me now are the two men that helped create both
Romneycare and the Affordable Health Care Act.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We feel a little bit like the may tag (ph )
repairman now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re dependable.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s very clear in Massachusetts, the law is
working well.

MITT ROMNEY: With a free market base system that gets all of our
citizens in the system not with the government takeover.

mean a government takeover. Connect the progressive vision of health care
for all with some ideas about markets and competition that had long been
championed by conservatives.


SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks. Thanks for
watching. Big baseball game tonight in Boston, but something really
strange happened just within the last hour. The cleanup hitter (ph)
stepped to the plate and knocked it out of the park.

President Obama proved that he could hit the curve ball because that`s
all the mainstream media has been throwing at the American people as of
late, one curve ball after another. So the President at the top of his
game like the World Series steps out and lays it right on the line and sets
the record straight.

We start with Breaking News tonight. President Obama just wrapped up
a big speech in Boston, Massachusetts speaking at Faneuil Hall in the big
city, the Beantown. You know, it`s the same place Governor Mitt Romney
signed RomneyCare in the law back in April of 2006. President Obama speech
obviously today was designed to draw the parallels between the success of
the health care law in Massachusetts zone as RomneyCare and now the
national law which is known as ObamaCare, the Affordable Care Act.

President Obama came out and he just dispelled a bunch of lies through
a bunch of water on the biggest myth about the Affordable Care Act. He
called out the so-called junk insurance policies. This is what we focused
our program on last night. It`s almost as if the President was watching
verbatim. Junk insurance is what this is all about and the President front
and center today explained that this is what the law was designed to get
rid off.


OBAMA: It is also true that some Americans who have health insurance
plans that they bought on their own through the old individual market are
getting notices from their insurance companies suggesting that somehow
because the Affordable Care Act, they maybe losing their existing health
insurance plans. This has been the latest flurry in the news. Because
there`s been a lot of confusion and misinformation about this, I want to
explain just what`s going on.

One of the things health reform was designed to do was to help not
only the uninsured but also the underinsured and there are a number of
Americans, fewer than five 5 percent of Americans who got cut rate plans
that don`t offer real financial protection in the event of a serious
illness or an accident.

Remember, before the Affordable Care Act these bad apple insurers had
free reign every single year to limit the care that you received, or use
minor preexisting conditions to jack up your premiums or bill you into
bankruptcy. So a lot of people thought they were buying coverage and it
turned out not to be so good. Before the Affordable Care Act, the worse of
these plans routinely dropped thousands of Americans every single year.
And on average premiums for folks who stayed in their plans for more than a
year shot up about 15 percent a year. This wasn`t just bad for those folks
who were -- have these policies, it was bad for all of us because again
when tragedy strikes and folks can`t pay their medical bills everybody else
picks up the tab.

Now, if you had one of these substandard plans before the Affordable
Care Act became on and you really liked that plan, you were able to keep
it. That`s what I`ve said when I was running for office. That was part of
the promise we made. But ever since the law was passed, if insurers
decided to downgrade or cancel these substandard plans, well we said under
the law is, "You`ve got to replace them with quality comprehensive coverage
because that too was a central premise of the Affordable Care Act from the
very beginning."

And today, that promise means that every plan in the marketplace
covers a core set of minimum benefits like maternity care and preventive
care and mental health care and prescription drug benefits and
hospitalization and they can`t use allergies or pregnancy or a sports
injury or the fact that you`re a woman to charge you more. They can`t do
that anymore. They can`t do that anymore.

If you couldn`t afford coverage because your child had asthma, well,
he`s now covered. If you`re one of the 45 million Americans with a mental
illness, you`re covered. You`re a young couple expecting a baby, you`re
covered, you`re safer. The system is more secure for you, and it`s more
secure for everybody.

So if you`re getting one of these letters, just shop around in the new
marketplace. That`s what it`s for.

Because of the tax credits that we`re offering, and the competition
between insurers, most people are going to be able to get better,
comprehensive health care plans for the same price or even cheaper than


SCHULTZ: See you Republicans. You`re on the wrong side of history.

You hear what the President just said? If you`re getting one of these
letters that the Republicans are so concerned about just go to exchange.
You will get better insurance and your prices will go down.

It is hilarious to see what has unfolded in these meetings on Capitol
Hill these hearings. We have seen now the Republicans step forward and
defend junk insurance. What else would you expect from the Republican
Party but a bunch of damn junk? And the President didn`t stop there. He
went on the call out the mainstream media for misleading the public about


OBAMA: For the fewer than 5 percent of Americans who buy insurance on
your own, you will be getting a better deal. So anyone peddling the notion
that insurers are canceling people`s plans without mentioning that almost
all the insurers are encouraging people to join better plans with the same
carrier and stronger benefits and stronger protections, while others will
be able to get better plans with new carriers through the marketplace. And
then, many will get new help to pay for these better plans and make them
actually cheaper if you lead that step out, you`re being grossly
misleading. To say the least.


SCHULTZ: Grossly misleading. No he didn`t call him a lair. Just
grossly misleading which I think is even worst, because of what a
journalist really their obligation is to do what, explore all the facts and
present the entire story.

Clearly, this has not been the case in the mainstream media. The
focus has been and the defense of the Republican Party is that they are so
concerned all of a sudden about all these people that don`t have insurance
and they`re getting these notices and they don`t know why. You know what
they don`t know why, is because they haven`t read the law.

I watched some of this hearing today with Kathleen Sebelius, the
Health And Human Services Secretary, Phil Gingrey, you, Georgia
Congressman, you`re a doctor. You can`t tell me that you read that law.
There`s no way in hell you`ve read that law. Marsha Blackburn when I call
that you`re off the hook either.

I think that these Republicans ought to come out, raise their right
hand and say, I have read ObamaCare first page to last page.

They wouldn`t be bringing up these issues if they knew. It is clearly
stated in the law about what happens to people who are going to lose the
junk insurance. But the Republicans have taken it and they could wick (ph)
things some of the people in the mainstream media to believe that this is
really a bad deal and what Obama is really doing as well, he`s screwing

Come on folks. This is about moving America forward. John F. Kennedy
we played a clip of him last night of his program from 50 years ago talking
about how other industrialized countries around the world are ahead of us
and they`re still ahead of us.

This is the catch up mode. This is America getting the game for the
American people. This is protecting consumers. The President at the top
of this game today that`s almost as if I harken back to the first debate
that the President had with Mitt Romney and then really, really, I mean I
was critical of it, a lot of people were, that gosh does the President even
in the game.

It`s almost like a rope-a-dope. It`s almost OK, let them get them get
-- have these hearings. Let all the lies come in and then I`m going to go
to the backyard of RomneyCare where it`s working in Massachusetts and I`m
going to dispel the biggest lies that are out there.

And the biggest one out there as of late is that consumers aren`t
going to get a better deal and the bottom line is that they are. This is
good for America. I hope the President goes to Kentucky. I will be on
Kentucky on Monday and on this program Monday night I will bring you a
success story about how ObamaCare is working and how over 26,000 people
have already signed up in the state that had a lot of folks that didn`t
have health insurance. But I`m warning you, it`s a positive story. It`s a
positive story.

Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think. Tonight`s
question, will Republicans continue to defend junk insurance plans? Text A
for Yes, text B for No to 67622. You can always go to our blog and leave a
comment at We`ll bring in the results later on in the show.

For more on this, let`s bring in Congressman James Clyburn of South
Carolina, a veteran who is on the Democratic Leadership Team. Congressman,
great to have you with us tonight.

REP. JAMES CLYBURN, (D) SOUTH CAROLINA: Well, thank you for having

SCHULTZ: Your reaction to what you just heard the President say to
the media spin that people are getting on these cancellation letters?

CLYBURN: Well, I think the President was spot on with his speech
today. It was as you said he hit it out of the pot. He happen to be in
Boston where there`d be some folks attempting to do the same thing tonight
on a different front, but I enjoyed the speech. I didn`t see 100 percent
of it but I think I saw about 90 percent of it. And I think that he
explained it -- sort of everybody would understand it. And that is simply
what the Affordable Care Act did was to develop a flow beneath which
insurance companies were not going to be allowed to operate.

Come out of the basement. Bring your plans up to standard and stop
putting in fine print that people really don`t know what they have until
you go and try to use it. I happen to be one of those people back in my
younger days. I had to end up paying out of my pocket for my first two
children separately because I didn`t read the fine print. I`ve talked to
many people in my district who`ve seen themselves drop from coverage as
soon as they started treatment for a catastrophic illness. I`ve seen some
have said to me that they have gotten letters from their insurance
companies telling them that they run out of benefits because of .


CLYBURN: . cancer treatments or other kinds of treatments for their
children. So this is what we`re saying, this is not going to be allowed to
continue and it maybe that you like what you got simply because you`ve
never tried to use it. And so .

SCHULTZ: Congressman.

CLYBURN: . I think that President did well today.

SCHULTZ: . the whole point of this is to do away with junk policies.
And what the President said yesterday.

CLYBURN: Absolutely.

SCHULTZ: . it`s not only the uninsured, it`s the underinsured, it`s
the folks who are out there have the lousy policies that aren`t going to
meet the standards of what we want for health care coverage in this
country. And now, the insurance industry is going to have to pony up and
do a better job of serving the public. Did you ever think in all of your
years of Congress, and you`ve been a long time not to date you, but the
fact is, the Republicans are defending junk policies. They`re defending
poor service to the American consumers. How else do we read it?

CLYBURN: That`s exactly what they have been doing, but let me tell
you something else, Ed, it`s kind of interesting that I don`t see a lot of
talk about those letters that many policy holders got from insurance
companies. A few months ago, there was rebates they got with those
insurance companies did not return to them 80 percent of the premiums that
they paid in.

A lot of people I`ve talked to got some checks. They didn`t know
where they came from. I wish those insurance companies when they sent
those checks say to them, because of the Affordable Care Act, we are
returning to you some of the premiums that you paid in because we did not
send back 80 percent of the premiums that you paid. That would have been a
very nice thing for them to do if they really, well, want to be honest with
the policy and all of this.

SCHULTZ: And Congressman, how important -- how critical do you think
it is that the President stays on point with this issue and calls out
grossly misleading reports about ObamaCare? I mean I think that I almost
have a sense -- a feeling of heart tonight that the worm has that the .

CLYBURN: I think so.

SCHULTZ: . Right Wing has been exposed that we all know what they`re
about right now and they have left no stone unturned. No lie is going to
turn this around.

CLYBURN: I think you`re exactly right about that. I was watching the
President listening and I got a pretty good feeling to that tonight. I got
a good feeling today tell you the truth that people are calling my office
and people are saying to me that they`re beginning to see through this
thing. And I think you`re right.

Go to Kentucky. I talked a former member from Kentucky. Last night,
one of his staff was -- last night and they are having a tremendously
positive experience in Kentucky and I believe that the same thing could
happen in a state like my state. If we had some leadership, that would
say, "Let`s take on step with this. Let`s do something for our
constituents to give them a positive .

SCHULTZ: Exactly.

CLYBURN: . to uplift in spirit within which to go about to do this
and responsibilities to this great nation of ours."

SCHULTZ: No doubt. I will be in Kentucky on Monday. I`m warning the
audience it`s going to be a positive story. I got to bring that.
Congressman James Clyburn, always a pleasure, good to have you on the Ed
Show. Thank you, sir.

Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the
screen, share your thoughts on Twitter@Ed Show and on Facebook. We always
appreciate it that.

Coming up, the greatest hits from today`s hearings with Health Chief
Kathleen Sebelius. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. We love hearing from our
viewers. We`re moving Ask Ed Live up tonight because we are so fired up
about communicating with you can tweet us at Ed Show. Our first question
comes tonight from Rick Fabian (ph). He wants to know, do you think
Republican politicians ever think about how they will be viewed by future

Well, actually, they`re certainly not acting like it. No, I don`t. I
think that they think that they can lie their way out of anything, but for
the record and I don`t think that they are going to be able to wiggle out
of this one. No Republicans have been on board with President Obama when
it comes to health care reform and through all of the debate and
obstruction and the implementation, they have offered no plan. No plan,
whatsoever to help the uninsured or the underinsured of this country. I
think that is going to be tough to erase from the record books and the
history books.

Our next question comes from Dana Marino (ph). She wants to know why
is the GOP better at messaging than Dems?

Well, I`m not so sure that they are. I just think that they have more
of it. Fact of the matter is, 90 percent of the electronic media which is
owned in this country is owned by conservatives. They own it, they program
it, they control it and, you know, I`ve said all along that if I own 600
radio stations like some of these big radio companies, I wouldn`t have a
limbo on any of them. Ownership has its privileges.

The fact of the matter is this is when you`ve got 500 Right Wing talk
show host running around the country with bullet points from the Heritage
Foundation, after 20 years of doing this it`s going to have an impact on
how people think. I think that talk radio has had a great influence on
putting people in a very intrenched way of thinking on certain ideologies.
And they do a good job of communicating, not doubt about it.

And most of the conservative think tanks do a great job of using that
medium. And so when they got the microphone, when the Fairness Doctrine
was knocked down things turned a lot in this country. And getting people
intrenched in how they think is really what it`s all about.

But this is undoubtedly and Krauthammer talked about it last -- in
recent days on shows that this is the game changer for the liberals in this
country. This is why ObamaCare needs to be successful. This is
generational change, this is something that the American people will always
hang with the progressive movement and they will be certainly indebted to
Democrats for making this thing happen because the Republicans have been a
no-show and it is messaging.

So there are victories on both sides.

Lots more coming up here on the Ed Show, stay with us.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show, thank for watching tonight. We
are six days out from the Election Day. In Virginia, the Governor`s race
is coming down really to the wire. Depending on the poll that you`re
looking at, the race could be tighter than expected. The Roanoke College
Poll has Democrat Terry McAuliffe with the 15-point lead over Republican
Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli. On the other hand, Quinnipiac University
finds McAuliffe with a much smaller 4-point lead over the attorney general.

But no matter which poll you`re looking at, this is so clear. Social
issues matter and women could make the difference in this election in a
course turnout. Now according to Quinnipiac, female voters in Virginia
back McAuliffe over Cuccinelli 50 percent to 37 percent. The Washington
Post finds the margin to be even bigger with Cuccinelli trailing by what 24
points among women, this could be the reason.

Cuccinelli was one of three attorney general who did not join a
bipartisan push for reauthorization of the Violence Against Women Act.
Also Cuccinelli was the first attorney general to sue the federal
government of ObamaCare which expands access for women to health care. He
voted against the Senate Bill stating that contraception is not abortion
He sponsored person hood bills which would give legal rights to embryos
from the moment of fertilization and potentially interfere with access to
basic birth control.

As a Virginia Senator, he push an amendment to defund states support
for nonprofit clinics that perform abortions like plan parenthood. The
2012 Election was not the end to the war on women. Cuccinelli has spent
his entire career as an elected official trying to roll back the progress
on women`s reproductive rights.

Now by some counts, he`s just 4 percentage points away from becoming
governor of Virginia which is why it`s more important than ever for women
in the State of Virginia to get out and vote.

Joining me now our Rapid Response Panel Terry O`Neil, President of the
National Organization of Women, and Joan Walsh of Great to have
both of you with us.

This is a powder keg which I think has implications for 2016, Terry,
how important is this race next Tuesday.

the most important you can imagine. Virginia has a history of electing a
governor of the other party from who won the presidency in the previous

So in 2012, President Obama is reelected and the following history,
you would expect a Republican to win the Virginia Gubernatorial Election.
I don think that`s going to happen.

And one thing that is really new, the now activist in Virginia are
telling me that the women that they`re calling, the people they`re calling
to get out to vote and calling for Terry McAuliffe. They are voting on the
issue of abortion. They are appalled at Ken Cuccinelli, they`re appalled
at his opposition to birth control. He even opposes birth control for rape
victims, emergency contraception. So it is galvanizing women.

SCHULTZ: Well, that`s the next question in what does this really do
to though electorate, does this motivate voters, I mean that really is the
key here. Were all of the radicalness that he his brought forward
throughout his entire career. Joan, will this motivate women voters?

JOAN WALSH, SALON.COM: You know, I think so, we can`t think
complacent because this is going to be a turnout election. It`s on off
your election and those often favor Republicans but this year, it seems
like the Democratic electorate is fired up. The only good thing about it
being on off your election is the groups like Terry`s and other groups
aren`t spread out all over the country, fighting fire, electoral fires, and
there are a lot of people really putting, putting resources into this.

And you are seen for the first time, I mean Terry McAuliffe was not
afraid to take on issues like gay marriage and abortion. He was not afraid
to stand up on the social issues which a lot of Democrats in the past shied
away from. There are learning that women want to be spoken to as adult and
if women on their own are really quite upset about this restriction on
reproductive health and specifically on abortion.

O`NEIL: And, you know, even if they didn`t upset with in a past
elections and if there had been elections where neither can -- one
candidate want to attack women`s access to reproductive health care, the
other candidate was fly in.

WALSH: Right.

O`NEIL: What we`re finding is as one of the activists of Virginia
said, "Politicians who stand up for women, the women will show up for

SCHULTZ: What if Cuccinelli wins?

O`NEIL: That would be a disastrous indicator for 2014.

SCHULTZ: I mean he will do everything he can to push through what he
has supported in the past. That`s the only radio dub, right?

O`NEIL: Absolutely. He is one of the fiercest warriors in the war on

SCHULTZ: And if he wins, Joan will this embolden other governors in
states to follow his model? I mean Virginia is huge in the general
election and I think for Democrats, it`s very important that Terry
McAuliffe win to number one protect the integrity of the vote. We know
where the Republicans are going on all of this.

O`NEIL: Right.

WALSH: Absolutely.

SCHULTZ: Your thoughts on it if Cuccinelli wins.

WALSH: Yeah, I mean, I think we have to be worried about voters
disenfranchisement and every state with a Republican governor, you know,
we`re seeing Texas that the restrictions they put in place they make it
harder for women to vote even Republican women.

So, you know, it would be a disaster, I`m sure he would act on his
agenda but I`d be surprised so see that.

SCHULTZ: What do you make of President Obama going down there on
Sunday? Going to Virginia, the Clintons have been there, they`re of course
very -- I mean Terry McAuliffe`s almost like a brother to Bill Clinton and
I mean there is closest, you know, guys can get is in friendship and in
family. Is -- Would have that an impact? I mean, I think it signals that,
you know, they want Virginia.

WALSH: Yeah, they want Virginia and they want to put together -- they
want to put together the Obama coalition and also expand it. And so the
President coming down really does say, this is crucial to my base, this is
crucial to my next three years, you know, this is it going to be a bell
weather. And either really reenergize or demoralize the Democratic
electorate another state. So he wants to win.

SCHULTZ: The demographics of Virginia have changed quite a bit over
the last 10 years, it`s a much more culturally diverse state. It is a
Southern state. What does that mean in this off year, I mean motivating
minorities to vote I think it`s going to be a real big thing, what`s your
sense of the turn out from what your people have seen on the ground?

O`NEIL: That`s what we`re concentrating on from here to election day
it`s all going to be about turnout, and frankly that was true also in
Virginia in 2008, it was all about turnout and we did it. We took Virginia
is 2008 because we went door to door for President Obama and we`re doing it
again for Terry McAuliffe.

SCHULTZ: Turning to Ken Cuccinelli`s running mate which is also a
very interesting topic. The Republican ticket in Virginia isn`t just anti-
women nominee for Lieutenant Governor E.W. Jackson has made some homophobic
views clear from day one like this when recently re-service in his speech
from 2011.


E.W. JACKSON: We were told not too long ago that now military
chaplains will be allowed to marry same sex couples. How in the world can
we expect our military to be blessed by the hand of Almighty God, if we
allow our military to become the equivalent of Sodom and Gomorrah?


SCHULTZ: Well, speaking to the military that`s very important in the
time-water (ph) area. In fact the largest naval installation of the world
is in Norfolk.

WALSH: Right. But the shutdown turn some military folks against
Cuccinelli and his party, you know, the most interesting thing I saw in
that Washington Post polls from yesterday, Ed is that people have really
turned against the Tea Party in Virginia. Three times as many people say
they`re strongly opposed to the Tea Party as they strongly support the Tea
Party now.

And when you look at what -- whether those groups say they`re going to
vote next week, they are pretty much tied. And so, this extremism on women
and extremism on government I think has really put that down.

SCHULTZ: So how does shutdown politics hurt Cuccinelli.

O`NEIL: You know, I think it has because sequester politics and, you
know, the sequester is really a lot like a slow motion shutdown.

WALSH: Right.

O`NEIL: It`s across the board cuts year after year after year, and
that is really hurting military families as it squeezes the Pentagon and I
think that the military voters hate the sequester and the shutdown more
than they are homophobic, and by the way, there is not a lot of homophobia
in the military at there`s not as much as E.W. Jackson hopes to rest.

SCHULTZ: All right. Joan Walsh and also a wonderful to have both of
you here tonight and Terry O`Neil, thanks so much. I appreciate it.
Thanks for coming up from Washington to do this.

O`NEIL: My pleasure.

SCHULTZ: This is a big race.

O`NEIL: It is.

SCHULTZ: I mean Virginia is a big state in 2016. It`s one of the
Democrats I think are going to have to have and if Terry McAuliffe is the
governor, I think he`s going to have certainly has were cut out for the
integrity of the vote which is very important.

There`s a lot more coming up. The next issue of the Ed Show. Stick
around. Stay with us.

JOSH LIPTON: I`m Josh Lipton with your CNBC Market Wrap.

Stocks down across the board after the fed announce we continue at $85
billion a month stimulus program.

The Dow low as 61, the S&P down 8, and the NASDAQ shot 21. Facebook`s
stock moving high after the company top expectations in the third quarter,
revenue jumps 60 percent on strong ads sales. The number of jobs in the
private sector come in under analyst`s expectations 130,000 jobs were added
in October.

That`s it from CNBC, first in business worldwide.


SCHULTZ: Time now for the Trenders, the social media is talking it
up. This is where you can find us,,, and And this is where you can find me on
the radio. And that is on SiriusXM 12, Monday through Friday, noon to 3
PM. And the Ed Show social media nation, I tell you, we`re buzzing today
about Kathleen Sebelius` testimony on the Hill. Here are the top Trenders
voted on by you.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The number three Trender, Wild West.

been like a Wild West.

individual market plans change every year.


SEBELIUS: This market has always been the Wild West.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Obama Administration officials talk about taming
the insurance marketplace.

CARNEY: It has been under regulated. Insurers could deny you
coverage if you had a preexisting condition.

SEBELIUS: It wasn`t a marketplace at all. It was unprotected,
unregulated, and people where really on their own.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The number two Trender, GOP goes for broke.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But I don`t think Madam Secretary there`s one
person this room who`s naive enough to actually think that the Republicans
want to see this will work.

to repeal the law of the land. Is that clear?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ObamaCare just spends too much.

REP. ERIC CANTOR, (R) VIRGINIA: Stop the train wreck that is
ObamaCare. We`re not going to give up our quest time and place and remove
and replace ObamaCare.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kathleen Sebelius explains how a Republican repeal
would cause the country billions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What would be the impact if Republicans had been
successful .

SEBELIUS: The estimate of the Congressional Budget Office is that
would it increase the deficit by about $110 billion in the first decade and
close to $1 trillion in the second decade.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re rooting for failure.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And today`s top Trender, Washington Wizards.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the Wizard of Oz, there`s a great line .

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a feeling we`re not in Kansas anymore.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sebelius deals with a Blizzard of Oz comments at
today`s hearing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, Madam Secretary while you from Kansas, we`re
not in Kansas anymore.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t get you my pretty and your little dog

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People went to see the wizard because of the
wonderful things that he did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some might say that we are actually in the Wizard
of Oz land. Given the parallel universe is we appear to be habitating .


SCHULTZ: I`m joined tonight again by Joan Walsh What an
arrogance coming from Congressman Joe Barton from Texas.


SCHULTZ: What is the health care situation in Kansas? And he
probably doesn`t even know, in fact I`m not even convinced that these
people on this House Committee on the Republican side have even read the
bill, the rhetoric is not an all time high.

WALSH: Yeah. I bet she did pretty well given what she was dealing
with and that she never broke down and, you know, and tell them what she
was really thinking. I thought she explained the law very well, you know,
and that she`s not denying that there are problems and the President is not
denying that either. And we`re concerned about those problems.

But the level of foe outrage from Republican it`s just appalling. I
mean, the thing that gets to me, Ed too, is there`s a little bit of
complexity here in the media.

Today on Salon I went back and I compared some of the headlines around
the Phony IRS Scandal and the Phony Benghazi Scandal. Remember back in May
we were all supposed to be really concern about that and the presidency was
falling apart and he was either evil or incompetent.

Well, being competent mean is back that maybe, you know, he didn`t
know how badly things were going. Well, he must be incompetent then. And
they`ve just learned how to tie this government in knots by using the
power, they run the House, they can have hearing after hearing after
hearing and they -- and this is what they`re doing.

And so, she stuck there rather than try to solve problems. She stuck
there answering stupid questions by people who have not read the bill.

SCHULTZ: I think these hearings are doing the country a favor.
Because I think taking the higher road and not blasting back at these
Republican congressmen, the Obama Administration officials and today
Kathleen Sebelius just talking about how consumers been unprotected and of
course the industry unregulated, and now we`re having a big discussion
about junk insurance and this is exactly what the Republicans have been
defending and they didn`t even know it.

WALSH: Right. No, I think that`s a really good point. People do not
understand how insurance really works and they don`t understand the risks
that they`ve been taking and that maybe they didn`t know how little their
policy was ultimately going to cover God forbid they should need it.

SCHULTZ: Are these hearings going to have an impact on people signing
up. I mean, I think its attention. I think all the attention that these
hearings can get to the American people and now the President has come just
within the last hour and a half to debunk the most recently lie about who
exactly is covered when they do get a notice.

WALSH: Right.

SCHULTZ: And how they can go. I mean, I think this is all I`m saying

WALSH: Right. I think it`s mostly upside if the website, now I`ve
defended among the website .


WALSH: .from hysteria and over reaction. But I think at the web,
things will be better obvious point if the website was working.


WALSH: Because when people got these scary letters they could
automatically go and they can get reassurance. The insurance companies
aren`t helping them to figure out what -- how they can get covered and how
they can get possibly a cheaper plan. A few people will pay more, but most
people are going to find a cheaper plan. They can do that as long as they
can (inaudible).

SCHULTZ: What`s the biggest challenge right now as -- obviously the
website she was on record today, Sebelius saying it`s going to be done by
the end of November.

WALSH: Right.

SCHULTZ: That they`re going to have all of the corks out or whatever
you want to call them. That is going to be much smoother or they`re going
to be able to handle all of the load.

They hope to get 7 million people signed up by March.

WALSH: Right.

SCHULTZ: Is that a reasonable number?

WALSH: You know, I`m going to just say that`s out of my area of
expertise. They think they can do it.

Obviously, no one was helped by the website being so glitchy in this
first month. But, you know, if they can get it fixed I think what we are
seeing, we know, we saw in Massachusetts is that people maybe they browse
and maybe they shop but they don`t sign up until they have to.

And so, you know, they do have time to make this a normal experience
for people who normally like all of us. We start paying attention when
somebody sets a deadline for us. If the deadline approaches if the website
is working well.

SCHULTZ: Maybe we procrastinate?

WALSH: Some of us .

SCHULTZ: Is that what we do?

WALSH: . I shouldn`t say that about you, Ed. You may not.

SCHULTZ: I know.

WALSH: I know.

SCHULTZ: I`m not on top.

But I will tell you this that if I had been in the Congress I would
have read the law before I open my mouth in the hearing.

WALSH: You would not procrastinate about that.

SCHULTZ: I mean, I think if you really want to do some in-depth
reporting at the network level and put some resources to it, the
Republicans have made fools of themselves for some of the comments and the
questions that they have asked.

If they had just read the bill .

WALSH: Right.

SCHULTZ: . clearly they would have seen that they were going to be
Americans who were going to be told that they are underinsured and not
going to qualify. You`re going to have to make a change.

WALSH: Well, and also reporters need to be not accepting these horror
stories at face value. Wen we see reporters going back and re-reporting
and looking at what people can really get when they can go to exchange.


WALSH: . you know, they`re doing better.

SCHULTZ: I don`t think the Republicans have ever been on the wrong
side of history as much as they are on this issue.

Joan Walsh, thank you. Thanks for being here tonight. Coming up what
ObamaCare means for the future of liberal politics. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: And in Pretenders tonight the IOU congressman from Ohio Bill
Johnson. The congressman wants the President to shell out cash for the
cost of


President ought to reimburse the American people for any cost that`s
associated with fixing or replacing this website, over $400 million have
been spent, it`s been a flawed rollout, it`s a waste of taxpayer dollar.
The American people need to be reimbursed.


SCHULTZ: Reimbursed, you know, if the American people had a nickel
for every time they felt the effects of a flawed Republican congressman the
IRS refund checks would be delivered by Publishers Clearing House.

The GOP ripped off the American economy for $24 billion worth their
orchestrated shutdown. I`m ready for fiscally responsible Republicans to
write a nice slim down reimbursement check to taxpayers. If Bill Johnson
wants to believe reimbursement is coming from the President side of the
aisle he can keep on Pretending.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. This is the story for the
folks who take a shower after work. Progressives a battle against liberal
ideas is brewing and it`s getting bigger than health care reform.
Conservative columnist Charles Krauthammer, that`s his name, yeah I don`t
pay much attention to the guy, but anyway he has drawn the battle lines.


signature achievement ObamaCare is the test of this new liberalism, and
today it hangs in a balance of a website or a promise here and there. So,
this kind of a practical reality check on his ambitions if he does not
succeed with ObamaCare the cost of the kind of expensive liberalism, the
kind of entitlements state he has been looking for I think they`ll be set
back a full generation.


SCHULTZ: Krauthammer is trying to make the case that the future of
liberalism is based on the survival of junk insurance and the effectiveness
of a website. The generation he is talking about will ultimately be better
off because health care reform is what the nation needs and American people
know what that`s what they voted for.

Now, I`ve been saying this since day one of the Ed Show here on MSNBC
a set back on the functions of a website is one thing, but the basic
principle of ObamaCare is to give all Americans the advantage and access to
affordable health care which is a huge step forward.


OBAMA: Health care is complicated and it is very personal. And it`s
easy to scares folks. And it`s no surprise that some of this same folks
trying scare people now, are the same folks who`ve been trying to sink the
Affordable Care Act from the beginning, you know. And frankly, I don`t
understand it. Providing people with heath care that should be a no
brainer. Giving people given people a chance to get health care should be
a no brainier.


SCHULTZ: Joining me tonight, John Larson, congressman from
Connecticut. Great to have you with us tonight, Congressman. Now, I .

REP. JOHN LARSON, (D) CONNECTICUT: Always great to be with you.

SCHULTZ: You were a high school teach, correct, back in the day?

LARSON: History teacher back in the day.

SCHULTZ: History teacher. Are the Republicans on the wrong side of
history? Are you confident that they will pay a political price for these
years to come?

LARSON: Well, I think they`re definitely on the wrong side of history
as we`ve seen in the battle for Social Security and the battle for Medicare
and Medicaid, and now to make sure that all Americans have the ability and
the access to get an insurance that`s affordable. This to me is so wrong,
Ed. And the great irony is that they`re on the wrong side of conservatism.

As you know, Ed Democrats have their way. We would have Medicare for
a law. What we came up with as the President again today in Massachusetts
was the plan that was the seeds for which we`re provided about the Heritage
Foundation that was launched by a Republican governor with a Massachusetts
Democratically control the assembly, but did so by taking the best of the
private sector, the best of the public health system, and now with the
Affordable Care Act everything that science technology and innovation can
bring to bear to make sure the America people get the very best.


LARSON: . and are saved from, you know, being destitute, from losing
their homes .

SCHULTZ: Does the President need to.

LARSON: . from being denied coverage.

SCHULTZ: And Congressman, does the President need to more than what
he did today. I mean, today, I thought it was outstanding.

LARSON: I think that the more that the President gets out there and
explains it as you have said a number of times, I think he -- we need to
underscore especially this -- the underinsured here. And this is where the
problem has occurred. And listen, with any rollout of any major problem,
there is going to be problems, but everybody should be pulling together.
And the President again called and prevailed upon, not just Republicans but
the whole nation to come together here.


LARSON: This is where I think the fault of conservatism is. Here
they have a plan that was -- that is their line of thinking. And, you
know, Ed, here`s a way for us to the Affordable Health Care to deal with
the national debt, to deal with the sequester because 18 percent of our GDP
is expanded in health care, the most inefficient business model in the


LARSON: And so, here`s the opportunity for us to change that by
working together. The President`s provided a plan and an opportunity.
Let`s go after it together.

SCHULTZ: House Speaker John Boehner just released the following
statement in response to the President`s remarks. He says, "It`s beyond
disappointing that despite the evidence, the President continues to mislead
the American people about his health care law." What is -- What`s Boehner
smoking as of late?

LARSON: It`s beyond disappointing that first of all, they would seek
to take the -- they closed down the government and then seek to default on
the nation`s responsibilities over in their efforts to defund and to do
away with the Affordable Care Act.

This is what`s outrageous to American people. And people want to see
us working together to come up with a solution if there`s a problem, what
they want practically is to fix it.

SCHULTZ: But you don`t think the President .

LARSON: Listen, I`m proud of what the state of Connecticut is doing.

SCHULTZ: You don`t think the President has misled the public at all
on any thing?

LARSON: Not at all. He hasn`t misled the public at all.

SCHULTZ: All right.

LARSON: Anyone who understands insurance and understands how these
policies come about, and I thought Sebelius was very good today saying,
"Look. These policies -- personal policies are renewed on an annual basis.

SCHULTZ: Got to run, Congressman. Great to have you with us tonight,

LARSON: Always a pleasure, Ed.

SCHULTZ: Thank you so much. You bet.

That`s the Ed Show. I`m Ed Schultz. Politics Nation with Reverend Al
Sharpton starts right now. Good evening, Rev.


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