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PoliticsNation, Wednesday, August 27th, 2014

Read the transcript from the Wednesday show

August 27, 2014

Guest: Jonathan Capehart, Jamaal Simmons, Maria Teresa Kumar, Steve
Clemons, Eric Guster, Ken Padowitz

REV. AL SHARPTON, MSNBC ANCHOR: Good evening, Ed. And thanks for tuning

Tonight`s lead, if you like the governor shutdown of 2013, you will love
the government shutdown of 2014. That`s the message some Republicans are
pushing. The Atlantic reports today that House GOP leaders fear a
conservative revolt when government funding comes up for a vote next month.
That`s right, shutting down the government once wasn`t bad enough. Some on
the right want Ted Cruz to trot out his Dr. Seuss book all over again.


SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: I do not like green eggs and ham, I do not like
them, Sam I am.


SHARPTON: We didn`t like the shutdowns in the House, all with a mouse, or
here and there, either. But I guess Congressman Steve King did. Today he
said that if President Obama signs an executive order to deal with our
immigration crisis, quote, "all bets are off on a budget."

But these threats aren`t just coming from far right members in the House.
Senator Marco Rubio is saying the same thing. Quote, "I am interested to
see what kinds of ideas my colleagues have about using funding mechanisms
to address this issue."

I`ll translate for you. Because I speak Republican. Funding mechanisms is
Rubio`s way of threatening a government shutdown. GOP leaders should laugh
these guys out of town except one of the leaders is on board. The nation
has obtained audio, they say is of Senator Mitch McConnell, at a private
meeting with GOP donors, saying if Republicans were in the Senate, they
would use the same tactics that led to the shutdown.


SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MINORITY LEADER: In the spending bill, we
will be funding back against this bureaucracy by doing what`s called
placing aiders in the bill no money can be spent to do this or to do that.
We are going to do after then on healthcare, on financial services, on the
environmental protection agency across the board.


SHARPTON: He`s going to go after them? How`s that for a plan for
governing? McConnell is basically saying he will only fund the government
if President Obama does exactly what Republicans want even if the American
people don`t.

Joining me now, Ryan Grim Washington bureau chief for "the Washington
Post`s" Jonathan Capehart. Thank you both for being here.


Thank you, Reverend.

SHARPTON: Ryan, the last government shutdown was a disaster. Why on earth
would Republicans start talking about it again even?

GRIM: I think what is most interesting about the talk this time around is
who`s doing it. You know, notice that we haven`t heard from Ted Cruz. We
haven`t heard from the more far right groups in Washington that led the
effort the first time around. Instead, we`re hearing from people like
Mitch McConnell and Marco Rubio, the kind of the, you know, the kind of
quote unquote "responsible elites" that like to say that they`re upset
about the extremists who are kind of taking over their party.

And I think it`s -- I think those two folks and a couple others are just
kind of out to sea at the moment. I think that Mitch McConnell`s comments
indicate that the race in Kentucky might be a little bit tighter than he
wants it to be. He doesn`t quite feel like he shored up the conservative
base. And so he wants to hint at a gust shutdown to get that out. But
notice that you haven`t heard from Ted Cruz or the conservative groups,
which is one reason I think, that McConnell and Rubio got out in front of
their skis here.

SHARPTON: You know, Jonathan, last year`s government shutdown, it really
hurt the GOP`s image. One poll during the shutdown found 70 percent of
Americans disagreed with the handling of government negotiations, 70
percent. And today, House Democrats launched a new Web site, is the name, reminding people that house
Republicans promise to take the shutdown off the table last year. And we
all remember how that worked out. Is this a good strategy for Democrats, I
mean, to remind people what Republicans did on the shutdown?

CAPEHART: Well, it is a good strategy for Democrats if Democratic primary
voters hear the message and come out and vote in numbers that they`ve never
come out before. I mean, I think Ryan is absolutely right. What Senator
McConnell might be doing and what Republicans might be doing is trying to
gin up their base to give them the feeling that if we take the Senate, if
Republicans take the Senate, then they will have the house and Senate and
they can bring President Obama it heal and do all sorts of things that
minority leader pointed out.

And the audio that we heard of also possibly impeaching the president,
which is written about a lot. So what needs to happen here is for in order
to stop Mitch McConnell, Democrats have to come out and vote. But in order
for McConnell to be successful, he has to make sure his base gets out there
and votes to help, you know, help him win.

SHARPTON: You know, talking about the tape with Senator McConnell, it was
at a private meeting, Ryan, with GOP donors. We also hear him talking
about minimum wage. Listen to this.


MCCONNELL: And we are not going to be debating all these God darn
proposals. That`s a;; we did in the Senate is vote on the things like
raising the minimum wage.


SHARPTON: Raising minimum wage is a quote, "God darn proposal." I mean,
this is what he said. Doesn`t that sound pretty God darn out of touch with
regular Americans, Ryan?

GRIM: It does. And Joni Ernest in another tape that was revealed today,
said that she simply doesn`t believe in the medical minimum wage and she is
a Senate candidate out in Iowa. And she is expressing what is becoming
more common view among Republicans that there`s something anti-American
about a federal minimum wage, period. That, you know, that it should be
left to workers and bosses to work it out, which is you know, the freedom
of contract that you know about from the 19th century. It goes back that
far. So in some ways, Mitch McConnell here is actually a moderate voice
within the Republican Party when it comes to workers` rights here.

SHARPTON: You know, Jonathan, besides the shutdown talk, we are hearing
Republicans back home answering questions about impeachment which you have
written a lot about. Listen to this.


SEN. KENNY MARCHANT (R), TEXAS: I do believe that if the President had
impeachment proceedings run against him in the House, that I think there is
a very slim chance that the House would vote to impeach. That doesn`t mean
it shouldn`t be done, and that doesn`t mean that shouldn`t be something
that we consider. If we move against the will of the American people,
there will be a violent reaction and I do not think we will win in the
Senate. So let`s focus on winning the Senate first.


SHARPTON: He thinks we should consider impeachment but focus on the Senate
first. So clearly this is, let`s win the Senate, then we can talk about
impeachment. I mean, is this what the Republican agenda for the fall is,
to deal with shutdown, the impeachment? I mean, is this really going to be
their agenda this fall?

CAPEHART: Well, apparently. Because impeachment talk, stopping the
president, those are all things that gin up the Republican Party base.
Keep something else in mind, shutting down the government works just fine
for Republican primary voters. There are no consequences for people on
Capitol Hill who would shutdown the government. That`s why we didn`t hear
a lot of cry in the first few days from Republican districts. Because,
well, that`s why they sent those people there to Washington in the first
place in 2010.

So I think, you know, they`re playing to the home base and they are hoping
that -- and hoping it will work. But another thing to keep in mind, Rev.,
since last summer, they have been talking about folks in the basement
talking about impeaching the president. And the excuse has always been, we
probably have the votes in the house but we don`t have the Senate and so it
would be a worthless effort. They stand a good chance of winning the
Senate. They win the Senate, I guarantee you the president will be
impeached. That`s my prediction.

SHARPTON: Let me go to you, Ryan, on this. Something that Jonathan
touched on. Don`t they risk with this kind of talk of ginning up a more
than usual midterm Democratic voter turnout? And wouldn`t Democrats be
smart to do things like this web page that I announced to really start
putting out that the Republicans are talking about impeachment and
government shutdown?

GRIM: Yes. We are in a strange place where politically, at least, nobody
would benefit more from a government shutdown than Democrats. And if
that`s the political incentive, then they actually have, you know, every
incentive to go forward and kind of tweak the Republicans. So the
president is innocent advised to come with the strongest immigration
proposal that he can come up with because you know, it will gin up the
Republicans who then gin up the Democratic base.

The Republicans are trying to, you know, gin up as much of the base as
possible and get to the line without going over the line that alienates the
rest of the American people. So, you know, it is an interesting ten weeks
as parties dance with their respective bases here.

SHARPTON: Ryan Grim and Jonathan Capehart, thank you both for your time

CAPEHART: Thanks, Rev.

GRIM: Thank you.

SHARPTON: Coming up, new outrage over a man shot by police while holding a
toy gun at Walmart. Why his family is demanding the release of the
surveillance video.

Plus, American mom`s emotional pleading for save the life of her son. He
is being held hostage by the terror group, ISIS.

Plus, Marco Rubio may have a new reason for dry mouth. He flip-flops,
flop-flips on immigration. And sparked a big mess at a Republican town

And we`ll tell you which GOP heavyweight is quoting dumb and dumber to talk
about his plans for 2016. Stay with us.


SHARPTON: Once upon a time, Marco Rubio was the kinder gentler face of
immigration reform in the GOP. But now, he`s part of the problem, not the
solution. A problem the president will try to fix. That`s next.


SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: We are dealing with 11 million human beings
who are here undocumented. The vast and enormous majority of whom have
come here in pursuit of what all of us would recognize as the American


SHARPTON: That was Republican Senator Marco Rubio back in 2013, calling
for a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants. That was then. But
this is now.

This week, the Senator attended a GOP fund-raiser in South Carolina. And
was interrupted by a group of protesters who called him out for abandoning
an immigration bill he himself sponsored last year.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My name is Jose and we are dreamers from the state of
Florida, and our Senator wants to deport us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator Rubio, if you don`t stand with Latinos, stand
for dreamers.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Senator Rubio, stop flip-flopping with our community.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are here, Senator Rubio, came all way from Florida,
because you wanted to deport us and our family. You want to deport us and
our families, Senator Rubio.


SHARPTON: Security escorted them out as Rubio lectured the protesters from
the stage. With the crowd cheering them on.


RUBIO: You are doing harm to your own cause. They`re harming their own
cause, because you done have a right to illegally immigrate to the United


SHARPTON: The Univision Network aired footage showing one activist being
grabbed and shoved by an elderly attendee before being escorted out. The
Republican Party is hardening its stance on immigration, demonizing
immigrants, trying to punish young men and women who were brought here as
children. No wonder President Obama`s prepared to do what he can through
executive action to correct this injustice.

Joining me now is Maria Teresa Kumar and Jamal Simmons, thank you both for
being here.



SHARPTON: Maria, after claiming they wanted to be more inclusive as a
party, can Republicans move any further to the right on this issue?

KUMAR: You know, I was there when Marco Rubio unveiled the comprehensive
plan that they put together with bipartisan support and he was saying the
right things that the vast majority of Americans believe. What he is doing
now, unfortunately, is trying to rally up the base for the midterm
elections and fails to remember that Americans, we have a long term memory.
The fact that he is not celebrating the fact that these young people are
putting a face to the injustice of not passing comprehensive immigration
reform, shame on him. Because it takes a lot of courage to do what these
young people are doing.

They are coming out of the shadows. They are saying we want to participate
actively in America. We want a Social Security card because, you know,
this is the only country we know.

SHARPTON: You know, Maria, this weekend, immigration activists confronted
GOP Congressman Paul Ryan for voting to end DACA, you know, the deferred
action program allowing immigrants who came as children to stay here.
Watch this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A couple weeks ago, you voted for defunding DACA. It
would out me and my sister up for deportation, and we just had a question,
would you want to deport me and my sister?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thanks, guys. Have a wonderful evening. Thank you
so much.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I actually read your boo and I need your stance on
immigration --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I have a question.

question in between signing,

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you willing to refund DACA and take away my DACA?


SHARPTON: So Paul Ryan doesn`t even want to talk about immigration,
literally, Maria.

KUMAR: Because I think that again, what they are trying to do is a short
term plan it to rally up the base for the mid terms. But that`s not a
long-term strategy. And the Latinos won`t forget when it comes in 2016
elections for president.

The only way they can win the White House is to have the Latino vote. And
not even engaging in a conversation with a young man being respectful
saying look, this is the face of the undocumented DACA. This is the face
after young person wants to contribute to our economy, that is proud to be
an American, and you`re not giving him a shot. You are not ready to deal
with bigger issue of immigration reform but you are not willing to have a
conversation with someone that is saying, look, all I want to do is work
and participate and give back to America.

SHARPTON: You know, Jamal, this program has add real impact on
undocumented immigrants. The deferred action for childhood, those
arrivals, have allowed 550,000 undocumented workers who came here as
children to stay in America, 550,000. This is important legislation that
Republican parties trying to repeal. I mean, how can they even justify

SIMMONS: You know, Rev., as Maria Teresa just said a second ago, it is
amazing to me that Republicans have still refused to try to find a way to
reach out to the upcoming majority of American citizens that is much more
diverse. So when you add up together African-Americans, Latino-Americans,
Asian-Americans, college students, you know, young people, you start to add
these numbers together, what you see is a rising majority of Americans who
all think one thing in particular, that you can`t discriminate against
people based on who they are or where they come from. And we ought to find
a way, we are enlarging the American democracy, not shrinking benefits of
American democracy. But the Republicans are so captured by this one small
segment of the American electorate, this tea party segment that they cannot
free themselves from this. And I think it will cost them in upcoming

SHARPTON: Earlier, President Obama promising executive action of
Republicans failed to act. Watch this.


sitting on a bipartisan immigration bill for over a year, House Republicans
suggested that since they don`t expect to actually pass a bill that I can
sign, that I actually should go ahead and act on my own to solve the
problem. Keep in mind that just a few days earlier, they voted to sue me
for acting on my own. And then when they couldn`t pass the bill yesterday,
they put out a statement suggesting I should act on my own.


SHARPTON: Now, you know, the White House has said that we should expect
executive action by the end of the summer. How will Republicans react to
that, Jamal?

SIMMONS: I think the Republicans will be just as hypocritical at that
moment as they have been at every single moment. Because the only thing
that seems to unite them is opposition to Barack Obama. So Barack Obama
says the sky is blue, then they are going to say the sky must have been
green or the sky must have been red because Obama is for it, they have to
be against it. And it is the same thing will happen here. They want the
president to go out and do something about this but the minute he does it,
they will turn on him and say he abused his power as president.

SHARPTON: Maria, and what would be the response from this huge Latino
voting bloc, if in fact there`s a real aggressive fight by Republicans
against the president during anything, DACA or anything else?

KUMAR: There`s a reason why Mitt Romney received the lowest voter turnout
and why he doesn`t have a shot at White House last time. That`s because he
promoted self-deportation. That (INAUDIBLE) doesn`t pass with Latino
voters or Asian voters, but all of the allies.

Immigration is broken. Every single American can agree to that. And they
are trying to find solutions to the broken system. And denying folks,
basically who have been here 25 years or more the opportunity become full
citizens but having contributing their tax dollars and hard work to the
American dream is not only inconsumable, but is also a threat to our
national security and also to our economy because we don`t know who is
living in the shadow.

And unless we actually have an opportunity to do so, and that`s one of the
things that executive order provides is temporary relief. At the end of
the day, though, we still expect Congress to come out strong and that`s the
only time that you are going to be able to see the Latino vote up for
grabs. They have to resolve this sooner rather than later.

SHARPTON: Maria Teresa Kumar and Jamal Simmons, thanks you both for your
time tonight.

KUMAR: Thank you, reverend.

SIMMONS: Thank you, Reverend.

SHARPTON: Still ahead, why won`t police release surveillance video of a
man shot by police while holding a toy gun? New questions tonight.

Also, President Obama`s new push to stop the terrorist group ISIS. What
will it take it save the Americans held hostage by these terrorists?

But first, did you miss Mitt Romney? Well, he`s back and talking about
2016. That`s next.


SHARPTON: Grab some popcorn, we just might see a sequel to Mitt Romney`s
2012 campaign after all. Ever since his lost to President Obama, Romney
has sworn he won`t run again.


president. I said that so many times. I`m not running and talk of a draft
is kind of silly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Are you thinking of running for president

ROMNEY: No. I`m thinking about people I want to see running for

I`ve answered that question a number of times. As you know, the answer is
know. I`m not running for president in 2016.


SHARPTON: For months, the same message. There is no chance he`s running.
But this week, that message appeared to change. When Romney cracked a joke
about the movie "dumb and dumber." and in the process, opened the door just
a little for a possible 2016 campaign.


ROMNEY: We said look, I had the chance of running. I didn`t win. Someone
else has a better chance than I do. And that`s what we believe. And
that`s why I`m not running. And you know, circumstances can change, but
I`m just not going to let my head go there. Remember that line from "dumb
and dumber" --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: So you`re telling me I have a chance.

ROMNEY: That`s one of a million.


SHARPTON: One in a million. Republicans don`t lose heart as Mitt Romney
points out, those chances have given hope to people before, or at least to
this guy.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hit me with it. Just give it to me straight. I came a
long way just to see you, Mary. Jus, least you can do is level with me.
What are my chances?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You mean, not good, like one out of 100?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`d say, more like one out of a million.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you`re telling me there`s a chance? Yes!


SHARPTON: Republicans keep saying their next presidential campaign won`t
be another comedy of errors. Nice try. But we`ve seen this movie before
and we "got you."


SHARPTON: New developments tonight in the fight against the terrorist
group ISIS. Today we`re learning the United States is reaching out to
allies to widen the assault on ISIS. The "New York Times" reports the
White House has started a push to get allies in the region and beyond. To
provide support for potential American military operations against ISIS.
Yesterday, the president began outlining details of the coalition.


OBAMA: American combat troops will not be returning to fight in Iraq.
Will not allow the United States to be dragged back into another ground war
in Iraq. Our military action in Iraq has to be part of a broader strategy
to protect our people and support our partners to take the fight to ISIS.
So we are strengthening our partners.


SHARPTON: And today, the United Nations issued a disturbing new report on
ISIS tactics in Iraq and Syria. Declaring that ISIS is committing war
crimes in its push across the region. Also today, an American woman
released a video plead directly to ISIS begging them to release her son.
Journalist Steven Sotloff, who was captured by the terrorist network in
Syria a year ago. Last week, ISIS showed video of Sotloff kneeling in the
same place where James Foley was beheaded. Warning he would be next.

And today a law enforcement official tells NBC News it appears to be true
that a second American was killed in the same incident as Douglas McArthur
McCain fighting for ISIS in Syria this weekend. The question now, how many
other Americans are still there?

Joining me now from Paris is Steve Clemons, Washington editor at large for
The Atlantic. Steve, first of all, thank you for being here tonight.

STEVE CLEMONS, THE ATLANTIC: Great to be with you, Al.

SHARPTON: First, why is it important for the U.S. to gather allies against

CLEMONS: Well, I mean, to be quite blunt about it. We not only need a
whole range of allies but we particular need Sunni nation allies, like
Saudi Arabia, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates because ISIS is essentially a
very extreme wing of the Sunni Islamic extremist religious establishment.
And right now, bringing the entire world, other than the Sunnis together,
will only further inflame their own sense that they`ve been neglected and
humiliated. Our problem with ISIS has been that too many Sunni leaders are
acquiescing to them and not fighting them. So what we are doing in
bringing the world together is we are also bringing Sunni nations together.
That is a key piece of this.

SHARPTON: I want to play you the plea from Steven Sotloff`s mother, asking
ISIS to release her son. Watch this.


learned a lot about Islam. I`ve learned that Islam teaches that no
individual should be held responsible for the sins of others. Steven has
no control over the actions of the U.S. government. He`s an innocent
journalist. I ask you to please release my child. As a mother, I ask
justice to be merciful and not punish my son for matters he has no control
over. I ask you to use your authority to spare his life.


SHARPTON: Steve, what do you think of this direct kind of personal plea to

CLEMONS: Well, I`m the last person to ever second-guess a mother in pain.
And it is hard to know the complete calculus of what goes on in the minds
of monsters that are kidnapping these people. Once you go out on national
media like this, you raise the stock price, the value of that abductee in
the estimation of those kidnappers and that worries me.

SHARPTON: Now, the U.N. report on ISIS today describes this reign of
terror in areas that it controls. Fridays -- I`m reading the report. It
says Fridays are regularly marked by executions, amputations, and lashings
in public squares. Civilian including children are urged to watch bodies
of those killed placed on display for several days. Women have been lashed
for not abiding by ISIS dress code. Children as young as 10 are being
recruited and trained at ISIS camps. What does ISIS hope to achieve
through tactics like this, Steve?

CLEMONS: They right now are a very, very dark chapter in the lives of Arab
Muslims in that region. And I hope that the people there take stock of how
monstrous these people are. That said, everyone is a bad guy in this
region. You have Bashar al-Assad clearly torturing and killing in a
systematic basis, many of his prisoners. You had reports today that the
moderate opposition in Syria, the FSA, the pre-Syrian army beheaded six
ISIS soldiers. Everyone is conducting themselves in ways that no one in
the west could accept. And I think that`s going to be very hard for us as
we try to find people with white hats and black hats in this. I don`t want
to excuse ISIS for anything they`re doing. But right now you have
basically shades of gray and how horrible all of the actors can be.

SHARPTON: Now, we`re learning more today. I want to ask you this quickly,
we are learning more today about Douglas McArthur McCain, one of the two
Americans killed in Syria over the weekend fighting for ISIS. Listen to
some of his friends describe him to the Washington Post. A good ball. A
fun guy to be around. Just a regular American kid. I mean, how does
someone go from being a regular American kid to fighting for ISIS half way
around the world?

CLEMONS: I think the thing that we need to deal with, and it is very hard,
is that ISIS is a dramatic force. Disrupting and changing the rules of the
road in the region. And it is highly attractive to not only people like
Douglas McArthur McCain but also there`s a story of a ginger -- a red-
haired, bearded, Chechen commander who has gone in, who is also sort of a
loser. And someone who kind of lost his way. Who came in, has been one of
the most horrific commanders inside ISIS. So you have people from all
around the world who become thrill seekers who define themselves, who see
themselves as having an opportunity inside this horror to feel validated.

And that`s not only a testament of them themselves, it is also kind of a
statement on how people are getting lost in our own societies. I don`t
want to turn this into a critique of America, but we have too many people
in our society that are right now lost and looking for something. And when
we see them go off and escape into a horrible monstrous operation like
ISIS, and ISIS is only one of many horrible extremist Islamist brigades out
there, that there are other foreigners, not only Americans are being
recruited into. And I think that we were going to be dealing with this for
the next decade. It`s going to be real problem. We have to fix our
domestic problems at home and we also have deal with the fact that they are
trying to find glory and affirmation in some of the most horrible groups in
the world.

SHARPTON: Steve Clemons, thank you for your time this evening.

Ahead, tragedy at a firing range. A nine-year-old accidentally kills her
instructor with an oozy sub machine gun. Why can`t we give up the fight to
get this under control?

Plus, new anger over deadly police shooting a Wal-Mart in Ohio. He was
holding a toy gun. Did police have to shoot?


SHARPTON: The deadly shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri
struck a nerve in this country. Because it didn`t happen in isolation.
Tension between police and the community they are sworn to protect is far
too common. This weekend in Beverly Bills, a black TV producer was
handcuffed and detained for six hours, and accused of armed robbery of a
bank. In case -- in a case of mistaken identity, police later said they
regretted the error. In Texas this month, a mother was pulled over
handcuffed and held at gunpoint after police mistook her car for a
criminal`s. Police later apologized. But not before scaring her children.


UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Come on back here.



UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: Are we going to jail?

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Hey, stop crying. It`s OK. Everything is fine now.
No, no one is going to jail.


SHARPTON: And tonight, we are focusing on a deadly police shooting in Ohio
that happened earlier this month. It has the family demanding answers.


UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Police say 22-year-old John Crawford III of Fairfield,
Ohio was waving a gun that looked like a rifle at customers, including
children, inside this Beavercreek, Wal-Mart. Later, officers David Darco
and Shawn Williams arrived at the store in three minutes and confronted
Crawford near the pet supplies. They say he was holding a rifle and was
told to drop the weapon. The police chief said, when he didn`t, officers
shot him.


SHARPTON: That was the initial story from police. That John Crawford was
holding a gun, which he refused to drop. But since the shooting, police
have acknowledged Crawford was holding a pellet gun, not a rifle. And now
Crawford`s family says surveillance video casts doubt on the other parts of
the police story. They say it showed him pointing the pellet gun down
towards the floor. Police showed the family some of that video but haven`t
released it publicly. The family wants that to change.


that the public has been able to see is preliminary material gathered by
the Beavercreek Police Department. The exoneration of the police officers
by the police chief. The cruiser camp footage of after the shooting. And
the contents of the 911 call. This information has been released, is
decidedly one-sided. It is completely inconsistent with the portions of
the video that we were shown.


SHARPTON: This week, the Ohio attorney general handed the case to a
special prosecutor. Crawford`s family want the Justice Department to
investigate. And they want the surveillance video released.

Joining me now, criminal defense attorneys Ken Padowitz, Eric Guster.
Thank you both for being here and joining me tonight.



SHARPTON: Ken, does the family have a point in saying there is a double
standard here about what evidence is getting leased and what isn`t?

PADOWITZ: Oh, absolutely. They have much more than a point. It is really
on the verge of outrageousness. I mean, you can`t have it both ways. If
you`re conducting an investigation and you say no evidence is going to be
released, because it would taint the investigation or taint a potential
jury pool in the future, well then that`s one thing. But you can`t have it
both ways and decide that you`re going to release some of the evidence,
evidence that suggests the police did a proper shooting, and then not
release other evidence, videotaped evidence in this case, which shows
potentially, according to the family`s attorney, that shooting was
unjustified by police officers. That`s outrageous.

That`s what we call propaganda. And this country is not known for doing
propaganda. We have a criminal justice system and we have to have a set of
rules and laws that apply equally and fairly to all of the evidence and to
everyone. And in this instance, that`s not being done. So it is
outrageous and the video should be released based on what the family is
asking that all of the evidence be released to the case. Not just some
that supports one version.

SHARPTON: Eric, you know, the Ohio attorney general says releasing the
surveillance pool could taint the jury pool. But authorities did release
the 911 call. Listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED MAN: (BEGINI`m at the Beavercreek Wal-Mart. There is a
gentlemen walking around with a gun in the store.

911 DISPATCHER: Does he got it pulled out?

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Yes. He is like pointing it at people.


SHARPTON: Now, why is it all right it release a 911 tape, that doesn`t
prejudice a jury pool, but you won`t release the tape that the family of
the deceased is asking for.

GUSTER: That is what prejudice is the jury pool. Because what these
prosecutors appear to be doing, they are trying to get this tape released
and let the jury who would be the potential jury in this case, hear this.
Hear the people saying, the man is walking around with a gun. And possibly
when they go to grand jury or put it before a grand jury, they would have
this knowledge already. And that is very prejudicial and very unfair to
the entire case. Because you can`t just release this and say this man is
walking around with the gun without the proper authority and releasing
everything if you want to release any of it.

SHARPTON: You know, Ken, here is what the attorney general says about the
decision not to release the video. Quote, what`s important is that it`s
not been publicly released. I thought the family had the right to view it.
The mom did not want to view it, I understand it. The dad did view it, to
put the video out on TV is not the right thing to do. I mean, is that
going to satisfy people accusing authorities of selectively releasing

PADOWITZ: Absolutely not. That is absurd. I`m a former homicide
prosecutor. So, I have a perspective of enforcing the law and prosecuting
criminals. But that is outrageous. The criminal justice system only works
if everybody has faith that the laws are applied equally. That the rules
are applied equally. And here, it is blatantly being not applied equally.
The attorney general should release the video since he has released other
evidence in the case already. You can`t have it one way and not the other.
It is unfair, it`s un-American and it doesn`t serve justice.

SHARPTON: Now, let`s take a step back here in a minute, Eric.

GUSTER: Yes, sir.

SHARPTON: He had only a toy gun. I mean, we are talking about someone
that was killed, holding a toy gun.

GUSTER: And that`s the scary part about it. Because from what I
understand, the gun was even pointed down to the ground. So even if they
thought it was a real gun, if he was not making an aggressive move, what is
your rational to shoot him? I mean, the gun does look like it could be
real. However, he was in the toy department of Wal-Mart which should make
people think, hey, this man may have just been picking up a toy. He was
supposedly on the phone with his child`s mother, which he may not have
heard their commands to do whatever. And if he did not make an aggressive
move, he should never have been shot.

SHARPTON: Well, I mean, and we showed the gun, it`s a scary looking gun,
but it is a toy gun. A pellet gun sold at Wal-Mart. Ken, the mother of
Crawford`s children say she was on the phone with him when he was shot.
She said, quote, "He said he was at the video games playing videos when he
went over there by the toy section where the toy guns were and the next
thing I know he said, it`s not real. And the police start shooting and
they said, get on the ground. But he was already on the ground because
they shot him." That`s a quote. Does that raise more questions about what
exactly happened here or is it another reason why the video is so important
as a piece of evidence?

PADOWITZ: Absolutely lots of questions. Look, I was not there. This may
be a justified shooting. It may not be. This is going to be determined in
a court of law. But you can`t play games before the adjudicative
proceeding in court and let some evidence out that supports what you want
the public to know and hear and lead them down a certain way and not
release other evidence. I think in itself is criminal. That`s outrageous.
And you can`t have it both ways. The attorney general should release all
of the evidence or not at all. Since some was released, you need to
release the video. And let the jury, if there is going to be a trial make
a determination of what actually happened in that store.

SHARPTON: Ken Padowitz and Eric Guster, thank you for your time tonight.

GUSTER: Thank you.

PADOWITZ: Thank you.

SHARPTON: Still to come, a shocking accident at a firing range. When a 9-
year-old gun shoots her instructor. What we have to do to get this under


SHARPTON: Many Americans are still in shock today over that tragedy at a
shooting range in Arizona. A 9-year-old girl accidentally killing her
instructor with an oozy sub machine gun. This video showed the moments
before that shooting. The instructor was showing the girl how to use the
gun. When she lost control of the weapon. That facility is called bullet
and burgers. And it allows children as young as eight to handle heavy
weapons. Authorities say they finished the investigation and don`t intend
to file any criminal charges.

This tragedy shows yet again that America`s gun culture has gotten out of
hand. And more and more people said it needs to change. One big step
towards that is coming from Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates and his wife,
Melinda. The couple donated $1 million to a campaign that would require
background checks in Washington State. But even if you don`t have a
million dollars, you can help change the culture. We all need to act to
stop this senseless violence.


SHARPTON: We close tonight with the Michael Brown case. Today the grand
jury met again to hear evidence related to the teen shooting by Officer
Darren Wilson. The prosecutor said that it could take until mid-October to
present all of the evidence to the jury. That`s a long time. But America
won`t forget what happened in Ferguson. This tragedy is already changing
how officials interact with communities they serve and protect.

Yesterday, protesters marched on the federal courthouse in St. Louis. But
instead of being arrested, they were invited inside for face-to-face
meeting with the United States attorney. That lasted for an hour. People
are still marching. They are still fighting for justice. We cannot take
our eyes off the prize. Because this movement is about the future.


UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: I have three boys. Twenty three-year-old, 15-year-
old, and a 12-year-old. And that could have been my son out there. OK,
that got shot dead.


SHARPTON: This is about fairness. This is about a fair impartial
investigation. Because many of us see that the issue here is we cannot
marginalize anyone`s life without marginalizing all of our lives. I said
at the eulogy on Monday, we must be here for the long haul, in what makes
America America.

Thanks for watching. I`m Al Sharpton. "HARDBALL" starts right now.


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