Meet the Press - October 29, 2023

Oct. 29, 2023, 4:00 PM UTC

KRISTEN WELKER:

This Sunday, next stage. Israel expands its ground operations in Gaza as President Biden pushes for a humanitarian pause.

PRES. JOE BIDEN:

The Israelis should be incredibly careful.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Concerns also grow for a widening war, as the U.S. strikes back at Iranian-linked targets after U.S. forces in the Mideast come under multiple attacks. Plus, mister speaker.The House finally elects a speaker, Louisiana's Mike Johnson, ending weeks of chaos.

SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:

The People's House is back in business.

KRISTEN WELKER:

And just hours later, the deadliest mass shooting this year where 18 were killed in Lewiston, Maine. The speaker’s response: guns are not to blame.

SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:

The problem is the human heart. It's not guns. It’s not the weapons.

KRISTEN WELKER:

And, trail mix. President Biden has a new primary challenger: Minnesota Congressman Dean Phillips.

REP. DEAN PHILLIPS:

I'm running because America is demanding it.

KRISTEN WELKER:

While former Vice President Mike Pence drops out of the 2024 race.

FMR. VICE PRES. MIKE PENCE:

It's become clear to me this is not my time.

KRISTEN WELKER:

My guests this morning: Florida Governor and 2024 republican presidential candidate Ron DeSantis, Democratic Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal of Washington state and former California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger. Joining me for insight and analysis are: NBC News Senior White House Correspondent Kelly O'Donnell, Toluse Olorunnipa, the White House bureau chief for The Washington Post, former White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki and Stephen Hayes, editor of The Dispatch. Welcome to Sunday. It’s Meet the Press.

ANNOUNCER:

From NBC News in Washington, the longest running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Good Sunday morning. The nation is reeling after a week which saw the 10th deadliest mass shooting in modern American history with 18 people between 14 and 76 years old gunned down at a bowling alley and bar in Lewiston, Maine. The election finally of a new speaker of the house, Louisiana Congressman Mike Johnson after weeks of Republican infighting. And the end of the former vice president's campaign for the White House, further solidifying former President Donald Trump's hold on the Republican party. But we begin this morning with the war between Israel and Hamas which has entered its next stage. On Saturday, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Israeli forces had entered the Gaza strip on Friday, beginning “the second stage of the war," but he avoided calling the campaign an “invasion." The escalation has intensified domestic pressure on Israel's government to secure the release of the 230 hostages seized in the October 7th attack. Netanyahu met with family members on Saturday. For its part, the U.S. carried out air strikes on a weapons and ammunition storage area in eastern Syria on Friday in retaliation for recent rocket and drone attacks on American forces in Iraq and Syria. Here's Prime Minister Netanyahu.

[START TAPE]

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU (TRANSLATED):

Our fight inside the gaza strip will be long and difficult, but we are prepared for that. This is our second war of independence. We will fight for the protection of our homeland.

[END TAPE]

KRISTEN WELKER:

Joining me now is Florida governor Ron DeSantis, a Republican candidate for president. Governor DeSantis, welcome to Meet the Press.

GOV. RON DeSANTIS:

Good morning. Thanks for having me.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Thank you for being here. I want to dive right in and start with Israel, what Israel is calling this next phase of the war. If you were president right now, Governor, would you urge Israel to slow its current offensive to allow for the release of more hostages and for more humanitarian aid to get into Gaza?

GOV. RON DeSANTIS:

I would support Israel's right to end this problem once and for all. Obviously, we have an interest in the hostages being rescued. I would work with them. I would look at the intelligence to see what our options are there. And, of course, we have a strong interest there. But Israel is facing an enemy that wants nothing less than another Holocaust. They would eliminate Israel from the map if they could. Hamas would drive every Jew into the sea. So, I think it's important for the United States and one of our strongest allies that we stand with them, publicly and privately, in word and in deed, because I think if they do anything else than eliminate Hamas entirely, they're just going to face these types of attacks again in the future.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Governor, if you were president though, what would your message be to Israel in terms of defending itself but also trying to mitigate civilian deaths, which are already estimated to be in the thousands?

GOV. RON DeSANTIS:

Well, on the humanitarian aid, I've not been supportive of sending that to the Gaza Strip simply because Hamas will commandeer that money. And if you look at what Israel's facing now with dealing with Hamas -- there's been a lot of money that's gone to the Gaza Strip for humanitarian purposes since Hamas took power. Did they use that money to make life better for the people in the Gaza Strip? No. They used it to build a massive terrorist infrastructure. They have elaborate tunnels. They have all these things put in place that they have used to launch rocket attacks for many, many years and, of course, launch the barbaric attack on October 7th. So, Hamas is the problem here. And I think Israel's taken great pains to warn people to get out if you're a civilian casualty. Hamas takes great pains to try to get them to stay so that they can use them as human shields.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Understood your point that Hamas is hoarding some of that aid material, but aid organizations say some of the aid that has been recently sent in has made its way to civilians. My question to you, though, is: How much of a priority would it be, if you were president, to try to limit civilian deaths, Governor?

GOV. RON DeSANTIS:

Well, any time you're involved in military conflict, you want to be able to achieve, decisively, the military objective with minimizing damage to civilians and civilian infrastructure as much as possible. So, that goes without saying. But I think it's a double standard here when Hamas can go in and massacre babies, massacre elderly people, rape and mutilate, and it's almost like, actually, you have people in the United States that are siding with Hamas in the streets and cheering that. You don't hear much there. But then, all of a sudden, now, it's Israel is under the microscope for everything they do. Hamas can end this by releasing the hostages and unconditionally surrendering. So, they are choosing to put people through this. There's no way that they can do what they did and not expect to have a very, very severe response.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Well, let me ask you about some of the statements that you have made recently about those protesters. This week, you called for the banning of pro-Palestinian groups from Florida state colleges. Your Republican challenger, Vivek Ramaswamy, says that violates the First Amendment rights of these students. He writes, quote, "It's a shameful political ploy. It's unconstitutional. It's utter hypocrisy for someone who railed against left-wing cancel culture." What is your response to Mr. Ramaswamy?

GOV. RON DeSANTIS:

This is not cancel culture. This group, they themselves said in the aftermath of the Hamas attack that they don't just stand in solidarity, that they are part of this Hamas movement. And so, yeah, you have a right to go out and demonstrate, but you can't provide material support to terrorism. They've linked themselves to Hamas. And so, we absolutely decertify them. They should not get one red cent of taxpayer dollars. And we also have strong laws in Florida against fundraising for groups like Hamas. And we are enforcing those vigorously. That’s not a First Amendment issue. That's a material support to terrorism issue.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Yeah, just to be clear, you're citing the Florida law that says one cannot give material aid or resources to a terrorist organization. Do you have any support that they're actually doing that?

GOV. RON DeSANTIS:

Their own words are saying they're part of this organization, that they don't just stand in solidarity, that they don't just support what they did, but that this is their movement too. So, once you hitch your wagon to a group like Hamas, that takes you out of the realm of normal activity, and that's something that we're going to take action against. So, we believe we're totally justified within the law. And I think things like this have been litigated time and again. But here's the, here’s the broader point. You know, are we just going to commit suicide as a country and let groups metastasize who are openly siding with brutal terrorist organizations? I don't think that's a recipe for a successful country. I want to have a country where we're protected from that stuff. So I think we made the right decision. I stand by it 100%.

KRISTEN WELKER:

You take me to my next question. The only Republican Jewish state representative in Florida, Randy Fine, recently broke from you in an op-ed in The Washington Times. He says you haven't been nearly as vocal in opposing neo-Nazi harassment and attacks in your state as you have in opposing what you believe support for Hamas, which you just laid out. What's your response to that, what he's accusing you of, this hypocrisy effectively?

GOV. RON DeSANTIS:

Well, he's just trying to get his 15 minutes of fame. I mean, this guy was singing my praises a couple months ago. He's got his different reasons why he's doing that. We have acted very, very swiftly and decisively. I mean, for example, after this attack, we dispatched state law enforcement working in conjunction with locals to protect our Jewish institutions: our Jewish day schools, our synagogues. There have been arrests that have been made with people that were threatening to do harm to our Jewish community. And we have some of the strongest laws on the books, from anti-BDS to financial support for security of anywhere in the country. We're also one of the states that's had probably the most in migration of Jewish residents, and we have the second-highest Israeli American population in the entire country. So, people vote with their feet. They see the type of environment we've created here that's been very strong and positive. And name me, Kristen, another governor who scrambled planes to Israel to bring them back –

KRISTEN WELKER:

But, Governor –

GOV. RON DeSANTIS:

– bring Americans back from the war zone. We did that. We got that job done. Almost 700 people we've rescued, and we're proud of stepping up and leading on that.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Governor, let me ask you, though, because, as you know, words also matter. You are the governor. You are a presidential candidate. Your state has heard from both Marco Rubio and Rick Scott condemning those neo-Nazi protests. Why didn't you speak out? Why didn't you use your voice to say that you're not going to stand for that?

GOV. RON DeSANTIS:

Of course we condemn that. I mean, that’s – you just look at everything that we've done in terms of our policies –

KRISTEN WELKER:

But you didn't at the time, Governor.

GOV. RON DeSANTIS:

I don't think you could have –

KRISTEN WELKER:

You didn't at the time, according to Randy Fine. According to Randy Fine, you did not at the time –

GOV. RON DeSANTIS:

Well, right. And he's, and he’s, and he’s just trying to create a name for himself, so that's all nonsense. Everybody knows that's nonsense. And don't give somebody a 15 minutes of fame just because they're letting you try to do a preferred narrative just to hit me. It's nonsense. Our record is second to none, and we'll continue to lead on these issues.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Let's turn to another key domestic issue – the horrific mass shooting in Maine. And I want to get your reaction to what the newly elected Republican House speaker, Mike Johnson, had to say about it this week. He said, quote, "At the end of the day, the problem is the human heart. It's not guns." Do you agree with him?

GOV. RON DeSANTIS:

Well, first of all, I think this was a very tragic thing. And, you know, my heart goes out to all the victims in this. Truly horrific. I think, in this case, there was a medical intervention, health intervention. He clearly had problems. He was involuntarily committed. He would not have been somebody that would have been a prohibited possess – or, he would have been a prohibited possessor based on that adjudication. So, this is, I think, an example where clearly this is a guy, very well-trained, had a lot of skills, and then went off his rocker. There was an intervention, but it wasn't enough. So, I'd like to know, why wasn't there more done? We've seen instances throughout the country where there have been a lot of signs where people have maybe been referred, but then they don't go through with everything. And I think that's going to be probably what we end up finding out here. I'm somebody that's said publicly, we've had a major push over the last 40, 50 years for deinstitutionalization of people. And I'm not saying you've got to go all the way back, but I do think that we tend to pass the buck with some of these people and just kind of hope that they don't do anything wrong when there’s a lot of signs. So, I would be more aggressive on some of those fringe people who clearly are demonstrating signs that they're a major danger to society.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Let me ask you about your call to institutionalize people, though, because we are learning new details about what did and did not happen. This is overnight. Law enforcement chiefs say they received a statewide alert in mid-September to be on the lookout for Card after he made threats against his base, against his fellow soldiers. They searched for him. They could not find him. Yet, he was able to, in the days before the attack, walk into a store and buy guns. So, if you can't find someone to institutionalize them, as you have called for, why shouldn't there be a final line of defense in the form of a red flag law or some other blaring red sign that says to gun sellers, "Don't allow this person to have a gun"?

GOV. RON DeSANTIS:

Well, yeah, I don't think you would even need a red flag. If somebody has a mental involuntary commitment and adjudication of that nature, that usually would go into the system, and that would be on a traditional background check. I mean, I believe in due process, so I don't believe in this idea, you know, that government can just take someone's property and then go through due process later. But what I do believe is convicted felons and people that are mentally incompetent or mentally ill. I think that's been the law in pretty much every state and federally for quite some time. And, you know, I believe in strong, strong constitutional rights. But with that comes responsibility. And if you're somebody that is not, that can't conduct themselves in society because of mental illness, then that absolutely should be taken into account.

KRISTEN WELKER:

But if you can't conduct yourself in terms of mental illness, shouldn't there be a law in this case? Officials in Maine are saying a red flag law could have made a difference. It would have empowered authorities to raise that red light to gun sellers all across the state and say, "This is someone who should not be able to own a gun.” That that final line of defense never kicked in because it didn't exist, Governor.

GOV. RON DeSANTIS:

Well, no. When you do background checks, if someone has a criminal conviction, for example, that goes into the system. When they run a background check--

KRISTEN WELKER:

But Maine doesn't have strong background checks.

GOV. RON DeSANTIS:

– that is what they're checking.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Maine doesn't have strong background checks.

GOV. RON DeSANTIS:

No.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Are you arguing for that?

GOV. RON DeSANTIS:

No. Federal firearm licenses, everyone has to go through where they scrub this. So, the question is, "What are you putting into the system?" If somebody has a mental health involuntary commitment, then that can simply be put into the existing system. You don't need additional things. And here's the problem I have with some of the proposals that have been done, and particularly in some of the more blue states, is that will be weaponized against people that the government doesn't like. I mean, you have a situation where someone can just make an anonymous call into a police station, let's say, say something bad about someone--

KRISTEN WELKER:

But that anonymous call --

GOV. RON DeSANTIS:

– and then, they come in and take firearms?

KRISTEN WELKER:

– could have helped in this moment, could it not have, Governor? Couldn't an anonymous call have helped in this moment to block this shooter from getting a gun, and going into these establishments, and shooting up 18 of his fellow citizens?

GOV. RON DeSANTIS:

And he could have had that involuntary commitment just put into the normal system. That is something that would have been able to pop on a background check. To then say that –

KRISTEN WELKER:

But how can you commit someone you can't find, Governor?

GOV. RON DeSANTIS:

--people should just be able to call--

KRISTEN WELKER:

How can you commit someone you can't find?

GOV. RON DeSANTIS:

When you have an involuntary commitment, that triggers things to go into a background check system. So, that should have been enough if that information was put into it. So that's what I would do. I would focus on those individuals who've actually gone and either been involuntary committed, been adjudicated to be mentally ill. That's really the approach that matters. I think you can look, you know, in Florida, our crime rate's at a 50-year low, and our violent crime rate's down 30% since I've been governor. So, we're handling it strong.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Governor, actually, statistically speaking, the CDC says that the firearm mortality rate is actually higher under your administration than it was under your predecessor's administration. But I do want to move on to the campaign--

GOV. RON DeSANTIS:

The--

KRISTEN WELKER:

--and just get your--

GOV. RON DeSANTIS:

--the what mortality rate? No, no.

KRISTEN WELKER:

The firearm mortality rate.

GOV. RON DeSANTIS:

Well, I don’t, but I--

KRISTEN WELKER:

Was actually higher under your administration--

GOV. RON DeSANTIS:

No, well, first of all, I mean, we--

KRISTEN WELKER:

--than your predecessor's.

GOV. RON DeSANTIS:

We--

KRISTEN WELKER:

That's according to the CDC. Let me move on to the campaign--

GOV. RON DeSANTIS:

Becau--

KRISTEN WELKER:

--Governor.

GOV. RON DeSANTIS:

Well, right, well, because you had COVID and all that stuff. Excess mortality, is that what you're saying? That went up everywhere in the country from 2020 on. Our excess mortality--

KRISTEN WELKER:

Your firearm mortality rate, Governor.

GOV. RON DeSANTIS:

--went up less--

KRISTEN WELKER:

The firearm mortality.

GOV. RON DeSANTIS:

--than anybody.

KRISTEN WELKER:

The firearm mortality rate. Let me move on to the campaign, because I want to let you respond to the state of the race right now, Governor. And, as you know, you are trailing double digits behind Former President Trump. He is facing 91 felony counts. Do you believe that the former president's legal troubles are the reason that you're still in this race?

GOV. RON DeSANTIS:

No. I mean, I think that had Alvin Bragg not politicized this back in April, I think probably the primary would be looking different. I mean, I think that that gave the former president more support. I think people felt that he was being treated unfairly, which he was, in that circumstance.

I mean, that, I think, has been a very important inflection point in this, because it highlights the weaponization of justice by some of these left-wing prosecutors. But here's the thing, ultimately: It's not about the past. It's not about all these other issues. It's ultimately about how do you get in and reverse the country's decline? How do we get the country back on a strong plane so that we lower prices for people, get the border secured, deal with crime in the inner cities? And we need a strong leader to be able to do that, someone that can win, and someone that can actually bring this in. So, that's the message that we're bringing to people in Iowa and New Hampshire. And, you know, when you're on the ground, you see the support building. We're doing what we need to do to be able to get the job done.

KRISTEN WELKER:

All right. Thank you so much. Governor DeSantis, we will see you on the debate stage in Miami. We'll continue the conversation. Very much appreciate it.

GOV. RON DeSANTIS:

Thank you.

KRISTEN WELKER:

When we come back, the chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, Democratic Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal of Washington State joins me next.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Welcome back. As Israel expands its ground operation in Gaza, over the weekend in Las Vegas, Republican presidential candidates declare their support for Israel. But the party's divide between isolationism and intervention was also on display.

[START TAPE]

VIVEK RAMASWAMY:

If Israel wants to, at long last, abandon the myth of a two-state solution, Israel should go ahead and abandon a two-state solution.

FMR. GOV. NIKKI HALEY:

The world is on fire. But here in America, we're acting like it's September 10th, when we were blind to the world's dangers. We need to remember what it felt like on September 12th. America has to get this right.

FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:

I believe it's closer than ever to World War III. And I will stop World War III. You will not have World War III.

[END TAPE]

KRISTEN WELKER:

On Friday, hundreds of protestors filled Grand Central Station in New York, calling for a ceasefire in the war. And on Saturday, protestors marched across the Brooklyn Bridge, the latest in a string of protests. Joining me now is Democratic Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal of Washington State, who chairs the Congressional Progressive Caucus. Congresswoman Jayapal, welcome to Meet the Press.

REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL:

Thank you so much, Kristen. It's great to be with you.

KRISTEN WELKER:

It is great to have you on a very busy Sunday. So let's begin with Israel. You have called for a ceasefire in Gaza. Do you believe there's a non-military solution to the crisis that would neutralize the terror threat from Hamas and also bring home the hostages?

REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL:

Well, Kristen, I called for a ceasefire or, at minimum, a cessation of hostilities about 12 days ago. And in that time, since the beginning of – of this horrific, horrific war, what we have seen is now, in addition to the 1,400 Israelis who were killed, in addition to the hundreds of hostages that have been taken by Hamas, what we are now seeing is 8,000 Palestinians who have been killed by Israeli airstrikes, 3,000 of whom are children. We have watched 120 premature babies who are likely to die without the fuel to run their incubators. And we see 50,000 pregnant women in Gaza who are going to either have to deliver their babies or die, but about 150 babies being delivered every day without food, water, or fuel. This is not a situation that is going to help either advance our long-term strategic goals of taking out Hamas, of ensuring security and peace for both Israelis and Palestinians, or, frankly, our ability to hold our moral authority on the world stage by ensuring that Israel follows the international humanitarian laws or the laws of war, as President Biden has called for.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Congresswoman, as the New York Times points out today, Hamas is actually sitting on a lot of that fuel, food, and aid that you reference. Their headquarters is underneath that hospital there. So ultimately, they are the ones who are depriving the civilians of Gaza of all of those necessary aid items that you reference. If there were to be a ceasefire, what's the guarantee that Hamas would abide by it, Congresswoman?

REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL:

Well, look, Kristen, first of all, nobody has any love for Hamas. Hamas is a terrorist organization that has deprived the Palestinian people, absolutely, of many, many things in the time of their rule. And let's not forget that the last election, where Hamas was elected, was 16 years ago. Half of Palestinians are children. They were not part of that. And Hamas is not Palestinians. And Palestinians are not Hamas. We have to be very clear about that. But humanitarian agencies have been sending aid through approved partners. And before October 7th, it was about 500 trucks per day. Now, Kristen, since the beginning of this war, we have seen less than 100 trucks delivered. Israel has stopped the fuel from coming in and being delivered by trusted partners. And, Kristen, I just think we have to recognize that this is a double standard. The United States rightly called out Russia for its siege of Ukraine, rightly called out the attacks on the power infrastructure, their refusal to provide food, and water, and fuel to the Ukrainians. And we have to recognize that our credibility and our authority on the moral stage is – is greatly diminished if we do not also call out this siege that Israel is launching on Gaza as violations of international law.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Congresswoman –

REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL:

We are losing credibility. And, frankly, we're being isolated in the rest of the world.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Let me ask you about what some of your fellow Democrats are saying. Senator John Fetterman, a fellow progressive, said, quote, "Now is not the time to talk about a ceasefire." He added, quote, "Hamas does not want peace. They want to destroy Israel. We can talk about a ceasefire after Hamas is neutralized." Going back to that original question, how do you neutralize Hamas? What's your response to Senator Fetterman?

REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL:

My response – my response is that we need immediate sustained humanitarian aid to flow into Gaza. We need the bombings – and, you know, you can call it a humanitarian truce, as 140 countries said in the resolution that was passed at the United Nations. The United States was one of only 14 countries to oppose that resolution. Call it a humanitarian truce. Use that time to make sure we get the hostages out, both American hostages and Israeli hostages. Let's not forget, Kristen, that we also have 500 U.S. citizens, plus their families, who were told to go to Southern Gaza because they were not safe in Northern Gaza. That was the part that was going to be bombed. They are now at the Rafah Crossing. And all these days later, three weeks later, they are still there. The United States has a responsibility to de-escalate the situation. We see the escalation on the Northern Border with Hezbollah. And I think this is the moment for us to de-escalate, to call for cessation of hostilities, and to allow humanitarian aid through and the negotiators to work to get the hostages released.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Let me ask you about some of your comments. You have characterized Israel as a, quote, "racist state." After a backlash, you clarified that you don't believe the existence of Israel is racist, but that the government engages in racist policies. Can you explain, clearly, what do you mean by that, Congresswoman?

REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL:

Well, Kristen, I clarified this right away, not after a backlash; within 12 hours of making the statement. I clarified that what I meant is that the existence of Israel is absolutely legitimate. And I think the world has come to see it as legitimate. However, there are racists within the Netanyahu government. And there are racist policies that Israel has been carrying out. I think it is important for us to recognize that we need to be able to criticize the policies of the Israeli government and – and not be called antisemitic. I really believe that conversation is changing in a way that is not helpful. And let me say this, too, that at the end of the day, the president and the United States is absolutely responsible because we also have been the largest military backer of aid to Israel. We need to be able to question where U.S. taxpayer dollars are going and what accountability the United States has in ensuring, for example, that when the president calls for Israel to adhere to the international laws of war, that they actually are doing that. Otherwise, we are complicit in a way that almost no other country in the world is.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Congresswoman, let me ask you about some developments surrounding President Biden this week. One, we spoke to leaders in Michigan who said they were concerned that he is losing support among Arab and Palestinian citizens there because of his full-throated support in Israel.

That also came against the backdrop of Congressman Dean Phillips announcing he is running against President Biden. Are you concerned that in a general election, both of these things could weaken President Biden's chances?

REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL:

Well, let me say, Kristen, that I have been one of President Biden's biggest supporters. I have been proud to be a partner as he has been courageous and strong on the domestic front. He has really called out the injustices for average working Americans across this country.

KRISTEN WELKER:

But is he going to be weakened, Congresswoman, with this –

REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL:

– stood on the picket lines with UAW workers.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Will he be weakened with this primary challenge?

REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL:

Well, I feel like I need to say this because – because what I think is that the president needs to be just as courageous on this issue so that we keep the unity within our country for the support of the incredible things he has done. He is, I think, you know, going to be challenged to explain an issue of this moral significance to people. The American people are actually quite far away from where the president and even Congress – the majority of Congress – has been on Israel and Gaza. They support the right for Israel to defend itself, to exist. But they do not support a war crime exchanged for another war crime. And I think the president has to be careful about that. And I would call him because I know him well. I've had breakfasts with him. I've had the honor of working with him. I would call him to bring us to a higher place, to let the American people – to really call to the American people and a moral issue of this nature. And then, I think we can go forward and talk about the incredible things that he has done. But I am certainly concerned about his approach to this. And, listen, my colleague Dean Phillips – everyone's got the right to run, but I'm sorry, I have no idea what he is running on that is different from what President Biden is running on. He took the same bold stances that President Biden has taken in this country on domestic issues. And I really don't see what – what he is doing. That's not the point, for me. The point is, I want President Biden to be the next president. And he needs to call us to a higher moral place.

KRISTEN WELKER:

All right. Congresswoman Jayapal, thank you so much. Really appreciate it. We've covered a lot of ground here. When we come back, after three weeks without a leader, House Republicans choose a new speaker, Congressman Mike Johnson of Louisiana. With another government shutdown looming and an urgent request to fund two wars, how will he confront those challenges? The panel is next.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Welcome back. The panel is here. NBC News Senior White House Correspondent, Kelly O'Donnell, Toluse Olorunnipa, White House bureau chief for The Washington Post, Stephen Hayes, editor of The Dispatch, and Jen Psaki, former White House Press Secretary, and host of Inside with Jen Psaki. Thanks to all of you for being here. A lot of ground to cover on this Sunday. Kelly O, let me start with you, and where I left off with Congresswoman Jayapal. The fact that President Biden now has a challenger in this race, Dean Phillips. He basically – he says it's time to pass the torch. How is President Biden responding? How’s the Biden campaign responding?

KELLY O'DONNELL:

Well Kristen, talking with Biden allies about this, they want to very quickly embrace the impulse to just reject Dean Phillips, to say it is irrelevant and that he doesn't have any Democrats with him. We heard that in your interview. And that his access to the ballot is even challenging. What they don't easily dismiss is the fact that he is, regardless of his own candidacy, he is a vehicle giving a voice to what many voters feel, and that is this concern, this anxiety about a President who will be 81 in three weeks. And so that is a challenge. They will say that Biden world – that doesn't change the fact, that's an immutable – immutable fact. And so what they want to do is try and turn and bring the focus to the things that Democrats care a great deal about: fear of Trump returning, certainly issues like abortion, other things that are pocketbook issues. They want to drive the attention there. And you know, Dean Phillips is someone who's not going to seek advice from the White House because he's the grandson of “Dear Abby” and is not going to be looking there for any cues.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Yes, a very good point, Kelly O'Donnell. And a good fact there. Toluse, let me kind of pick up on where Kelly left off and the historical context of this. If you look back in time, historically speaking, presidents who get primary challengers, and here you have it: Gerald Ford to Ronald Reagan, Jimmy Carter, Ted Kennedy, George H.W. Bush, Pat Buchanan all went on to lose. This might – this must be giving Democrats some jitters.

TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA:

They will never say that publicly. But you also think about Lyndon Johnson, 1968, who faced a pretty significant challenge from Eugene McCarthy in New Hampshire, won with less than 50% of the vote. We have another New Hampshire situation with Dean Phillips focusing his attention there. Now, the White House will never tell you that, you know, they're worried or they're concerned. They'll focus on the fact that Dean Phillips has voted with President Biden 100% of the time. But the fact that he's in this race now means that the White House, the Biden campaign are going to be spending less time talking about the things they want to be talking about. The 4.9% GDP growth last month, the fact that unemployment is under 4%, lower than GDP growth, which hardly ever happens. They're going to have to be spending more time talking about things like the President's age, talking about things like the high cost of living, all the things that Dean Phillips is talking about in his campaign. And Representative Jayapal saying, you know, "What is the difference?" I think he's going to be spending a lot of time talking about the difference between him and President Biden, and that's going to be a difficult message for Biden.

KRISTEN WELKER:

You set me up perfectly, because I had a chance to talk to Dean Phillips. Let me play a little clip of that. Jen, I'm going to get your reaction on the other side.

[START TAPE]

REP. DEAN PHILLIPS:

I'm not running against President Biden, I'm running for the majority of Americans who want somebody different.

KRISTEN WELKER:

But you just announced you're running for President, aren't you –

REP. DEAN PHILLIPS:

I woke up the morning after the 2016 –

KRISTEN WELKER:

That means you're running against President Biden.

REP. DEAN PHILLIPS:

I am running for President, and I'm doing it–

KRISTEN WELKER:

That's literally the definition of what that means.

REP. DEAN PHILLIPS:

And I’m doing it. And I'm running for President because America deserves to have someone listen to them.

[END TAPE]

KRISTEN WELKER:

Jen, what do you make of that message? Will it fly? Now, he says, look, a border is an area where he sees a difference between himself and President Biden. But he's basically saying, "I'm not running against him, I'm running this positive message."

JEN PSAKI:

Well look, I think it remains to be seen if there's Dean-mentum in this campaign. I don't think we see it quite yet. But I think – a lot of the Democrats I talk to will – will say that if this were actually an existential crisis in the Democratic Party, if people were all trying to run away from Biden, you would have a Governor Newsom, a Governor Whitmer, a Governor Wes Moore running. They're not. Dean Phillips is not well-known. If you're running for President, this is a kind of a strange campaign strategy to put all of your bets in New Hampshire where they're not awarding delegates, where there's not a diverse electorate, which why – by the way, is the base of the Democratic Party. But you still have to be conscious of every factor when you're running for President, and they certainly are. They certainly are in this moment.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Steve, he has a math problem, as Jen points out. And a message challenge, right? I mean, is he running for a younger version of President Biden? Could that resonate and chip away at support in a general?

STEPHEN HAYES:

Well, I would say you shouldn't start your campaign by saying you're not running against the person you're running against. That's a problem on the messages. But look, the – the – I think the – the challenge from the Biden White House, the Biden campaign, he speaks for a lot of Democrats. In our own NBC poll last month, six in ten Democrats said that they wanted a challenger to Joe Biden, 74% of registered voters say that they want Joe Biden to be challenged. They're not comfortable with him. He's speaking for some voters, and it's a problem. We’ve got 53 weeks to election, to the general election next year. Joe Biden does make mistakes. You don't have to be sort of Sean Hannity and create some big conspiracy about Joe Biden's mental capabilities. It's a – it’s a problem and people are going to see more of it, not less of it in the next year.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Major test right now for President Biden, he's asking for this new aid package, Jen, from Congress. And the newly-minted House Speaker, Mike Johnson, is at the helm, deeply conservative. Will he be able to work with Democrats?

JEN PSAKI:

Well, he wants to separate the aid packages, Mike Johnson, according to reports, which is very difficult. The whole point in combining them is to get them both through. He's going to have pushback within his own caucus, Mike Johnson is. So that makes it difficult for President Biden. It also makes it difficult for Mike Johnson to work and keep the caucus together.

KRISTEN WELKER:

What are you hearing, Kelly, what's the strategy in the White House to try to work-- is there one?

KELLY O'DONNELL:

There is one, and it is to give him a little bit of time to try to see, can he demonstrate leadership? One of the things that stands out about Speaker Johnson is there's no track record of leadership. Never ran a committee. He doesn't have the baggage of some of his predecessors, of broken promises and things. That question about splitting the aid is essential because people who know how legislation gets done recognize that fusing those two priorities together is the best way to get Ukraine aid over the line. And where I think Johnson has a moment here is that he – he has all the MAGA views without the bluster, without the bravado. And maybe there's a chance to have things calm down for a moment.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Yeah, Toluse, what do you think about this? Will there be a grace period, a honeymoon period where Republicans and Democrats say, "Let's give him a chance to try to work across the aisle?"

TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA:

It does seem like there's a grace period at the moment. It remains to be seen how long that will be. Conservatives in the House are saying that Johnson can push forward a continuing resolution to keep the government open next month. That was what essentially led to Speaker McCarthy getting tossed out of office. So the fact that he has that grace is something that he can hold onto. But after that, what happens? What happens when we get to January or April and we have to fund the government? And the same issues that McCarthy faced are going to be the same issues that Johnson faces, with a ultra conservative right wing that's willing –

KELLY O'DONNELL:

When you need Democrats, right?

KRISTEN WELKER:

Exactly.

TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA:

For sure.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Steve, very quickly, you've been talking to Republicans. The mood?

STEPHEN HAYES:

Talk to a lot of Republicans in the House, and there's a lot of, I think, willingness to give him some flexibility, give him the room to maneuver that he needs. They don't want to go through what they've just gone through over the past three weeks.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Yes, they certainly don't. That's for sure. All right, guys, thank you so much. We covered a lot

of ground here. And when we come back, a closer look at a key lawmaker who pushed for an assault weapons ban in Congress, and what motivated her to fight the gun lobby.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Welcome back. California Senator Dianne Feinstein, who passed away last month at age 90, was a fierce advocate for gun control shaped by the 1978 assassinations of San Francisco's Supervisor, Harvey Milk, and Mayor George Moscone. In her first year in the Senate, Feinstein authored an assault weapons ban which was signed into law in 1994. It remained in place until it expired in 2004. Eight years later, in the wake of more mass shootings, Senator Feinstein described how she was still determined to revive the legislation.

[START TAPE]

DAVID GREGORY:

What makes you think it can pass now? We've had tragedies before, and nothing happened.

SENATOR DIANNE FEINSTEIN:

Well, I'll tell you what happened back in '93 when I told Joe Biden, who was Chairman of the Judiciary Committee, that I was going to move this as an amendment on the Crime Bill. He laughed at me. He said, "You're new here. Wait ‘till you learn." And we got it through the Senate, we got it through the House. The White House came alive, and the House of Representatives. And the Clinton administration helped. The bill was passed and the president signed it. It can be done.

[END TAPE]

KRISTEN WELKER:

When we come back, Arnold Schwarzenegger tells me he wishes he could run for president.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Welcome back. Arnold Schwarzenegger is constantly reinventing himself. Now the world-famous bodybuilder, iconic action star and two-term republican governor of California has added a new role to the list: self-help author, with a new book, “Be Useful: Seven Tools for Life." I sat down with Schwarzenegger and asked him about the book, his improbable political career and who he'd like to see in the White House.

[START TAPE]

KRISTEN WELKER:

Governor Schwarzenegger, welcome back to Meet the Press.